Same. That curiousity is why Im getting them. I keep hearing theyre amazing, and nobody seems to have done a shootout right next to a CLR. Ive tried all the main players, and all but the redsound where in the room at the same time to A/B, and nothing touched the CLR.
I can’t comment on the Elis.8 but I love my Mf.10’s. They’re super punchy with a nice low resonance that is very tight. I haven’t gigged with them yet but I used to lug around two 4x12s. It’s satisfying enough that I don’t think I’ll miss it. They’re probably more comparable to a nice 2x12, but for a 1x10 that’s as light as it is, I’m over the moon.
Thank you for the tips and pointers as I will try these out. I am running your IR's so this has got to work.FWIW, I’ve never played through a consumer grade FRFR cab that sounded “right.” They’re normally boxy in the mids or have boosted top end. When I listen to a real mic’d cab through my studio monitors and A/B it with an IR, it’s identical, so I think it comes down to the color the FRFR cab adds to your tone.
If your studio monitors aren’t sounding good either, I imagine you’re getting a lot of reflections in your room that can enhance harsh top end. I HIGHLY recommend investing in some room treatment to smooth everything out. Your listening environment plays a massive part in your overall experience.
Since Meyer cabs are pricy, here’s a potential solution that might help you with what you already have that will keep your direct line sounding good (what you hear in your headphones) while making your FRFR cab sound better.
You’ll want to route your FRFR cab to Output 2. Try creating a preset that’s just Input 1 going to Output 2. Connect your phone or run a line out from your DAW into the Axe’s Input 1 so you can play music (something well-recorded that you’re familiar with) through your FRFR cab.
On your Axe, go to Setup - Global Settings and page over to Output 2 EQ. While listening at a decent volume, make EQ adjustments to get the music sounding balanced and neutral. You make need to cut mids and/or highs and boost low end. Once it’s sounding good, raise the volume and see if you need to make further adjustments. This is basically “tuning” your FRFR cab the same way a FOH/Monitor guy tunes a PA.
Now that it’s sounding good, try one of your presets and see how it translates.
As others have mentioned, a 1x12 cab isn’t going to hit the same way a 4x12 will, so you’re listening to it more like a floor monitor giving you the mic’d signal rather than hearing a roaring 4x12 behind you.
I hope this helps, and sorry for the long post.
Yeah I know this topic has been hashed out numerous times in the past. Just so damn frustrated that I can't get the FRFR/IR combo to work for me as I have been at this with Fractals and/or Kempers for years now and can't seem to get these to sound good for me. I need someone like Cooper Carter to come over and do a house visit....lol.
I have a PA in my rehearsal space, 5x 12" powered Yamaha DXR12, a sub, and my 2 atomic CLR's. Sounds just like youre at the arena. You cant get THAT sound with 1 speaker.
What would a def Leppard frfr soundlike without a massive pa? I thought they used marshall tube PAmps? It's hard to pinpoint that sound and imagine getting that sound thru one or even 2 frfr speakers? It's a daunting search. I've tried powered frfr, definitely much different at band volume. Dialing it in at louder volumes its stil a different sound. It should be, it's a different enclosure and Power source. I'm using a SS PA into a traditional 2x12, front of house gets IRs, then I have a monitor feeding me the IRs. Nice blend. I have contemplated trying one of the powered frfrs behind me with the PA and cab just for the experience. I may like it without the traditional cab, either way I can have the option to move on in either direction
Absolutely. Pro sound guys EQ for the room (and possibly for the speakers) at every venue. At gigs where I do sound, even with my same speakers, I EQ each output bus with my digital mixer to adapt to the room. This means I rarely touch the channel EQs because those are set for the inputs already - I just have to adjust Master EQ to make everything sound how I want.FWIW, I’ve never played through a consumer grade FRFR cab that sounded “right.” They’re normally boxy in the mids or have boosted top end. When I listen to a real mic’d cab through my studio monitors and A/B it with an IR, it’s identical, so I think it comes down to the color the FRFR cab adds to your tone.
If your studio monitors aren’t sounding good either, I imagine you’re getting a lot of reflections in your room that can enhance harsh top end. I HIGHLY recommend investing in some room treatment to smooth everything out. Your listening environment plays a massive part in your overall experience.
Since Meyer cabs are pricy, here’s a potential solution that might help you with what you already have that will keep your direct line sounding good (what you hear in your headphones) while making your FRFR cab sound better.
You’ll want to route your FRFR cab to Output 2. Try creating a preset that’s just Input 1 going to Output 2. Connect your phone or run a line out from your DAW into the Axe’s Input 1 so you can play music (something well-recorded that you’re familiar with) through your FRFR cab.
On your Axe, go to Setup - Global Settings and page over to Output 2 EQ. While listening at a decent volume, make EQ adjustments to get the music sounding balanced and neutral. You make need to cut mids and/or highs and boost low end. Once it’s sounding good, raise the volume and see if you need to make further adjustments. This is basically “tuning” your FRFR cab the same way a FOH/Monitor guy tunes a PA.
Now that it’s sounding good, try one of your presets and see how it translates.
As others have mentioned, a 1x12 cab isn’t going to hit the same way a 4x12 will, so you’re listening to it more like a floor monitor giving you the mic’d signal rather than hearing a roaring 4x12 behind you.
I hope this helps, and sorry for the long post.
Yes, a traditional guitar cabinet has a beam pattern, usually at 2-3kHz - every speaker actually has a beam frequency, it depends no the diameter of the membrane and the acoustic velocity. But used in modern cabinets, these speakers are used with crossover filter circuits which perform a frequency roll off way below the beamy frequency. The beam behavior is a very annoying side effect of a guitar speaker but also the reason why we hear a guitar speaker the way we are used to..... around the very narrow beam radiation pattern, there is also a comfort zone - at a certain angle from our ears to the speaker where we hear it the way we are used to hear it. Without the beam, there wouldn't be this "comfort zone" - and IRs trough a FRFR system don't have the same radiation pattern as a traditional guitar speaker neither having a beam zone - and also the comfort tone. You need to listen into the speaker directly, you can't use the hearing positions as known from the use with a traditional speaker. This is the most common issue with FRFR speakers and people used to traditional guitar cabinets. Some describe it as "amp in the room" but it has nothing to do with a room or with the lack of information of a room.
I understand DL has the benefit of a $XXXXXXXX PA system to make their tone sound glorious but those tones had to be captured through a smaller system by the guitar techs. I know Phil uses a CLR onstage as Seb does not use in-ears and the Viv uses an Engl Cab on stage for the feel but the FOH is what is producing the sounds with the IR's. I have done your approach with running a real cabinet with no IR's and a FRFR with IRs to blend both worlds with good results. In the end the traditional guitar cabinet was the body of the sound and the FRFR with IRs was just there for taste and coloring. Again, fun solution to make a quick W/D or WDW rig.
Understand.
I normally play a real Friedman cabinet with GB/V30 mix. I have a bunch of YA and other IRs of this cabinet that I purchase online to be close to my real cabinet. Again the whole capture/mic/mic placement and room that the capture was done is the only variable I cannot control so maybe me shooting my own IRs of my own cabinet in my own space might be an idea that I never thought of.
My room is treated somewhat. Also, my FRFR cabinet is a traditional 412 loaded with 4 Celestion FRFR speakers so this is hitting me the same way that my normal 412 would be hitting me. Trying to eliminate the variables here as I am aware of how wedges project the sound compared to a directional guitar cabinet so trying to keep apples to apples as much as possible.
The traditional cab with Celestion FRFR speakers in it might be the issue if it’s not been adapted to support them in any way.
