Is it me or are others in the same boat?

I really mean the speaker impedance curve option in the guitar amp/speaker tab
Choosing different cabs makes a big difference !
 
REDD said:
Try my IR's. Pan Big 5 and Big four 20% right and left and then put the Marshall straight up in the middle and back it down to -10db. Works for Metal and everything else I do.
The moment I went FRFR is when I was using four KRANK cabs and a VHT poweramp live and listened to the mic'd sound thru the P.A. and then the direct sound with Ir's and then I knew I had to switch.
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Wow. These are really, really good. First IRs I have used that come within spitting distance of my favourite York Audio mixes. Really like this.

I added a little bit of proximity to the Big Four and Marshall mix, and ended up accidentally adding a 421 C TV cab to the last cab spot in the mix at 0db, right up the middle. That 421 mic added a lot of mids back into the mix, which helped for my styles. Added a little low and high cut to taste and blam-mo, a new saved cab block. Incredible work here. Thanks REDD!
 
nathan_393 said:
Wow. These are really, really good. First IRs I have used that come within spitting distance of my favourite York Audio mixes. Really like this.

I added a little bit of proximity to the Big Four and Marshall mix, and ended up accidentally adding a 421 C TV cab to the last cab spot in the mix at 0db, right up the middle. That 421 mic added a lot of mids back into the mix, which helped for my styles. Added a little low and high cut to taste and blam-mo, a new saved cab block. Incredible work here. Thanks REDD!
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Awesome man! I might try that!
 
I use 2 Headrush 2000 watt FRFR cabs in my live rig and they sound amazing in every venue, every time. I've tried the power amp/cab combo and was never happy with it.
 
I’m convinced that for low level older players - like me - go power amp into traditional cab (cab sim off) - I’ve never had anything going through the PA except vocals - if you have FOH and monitors Frfr all the way - that’s the sound you’re use to hearing and comfortable with - nothing wrong with either IMHO
 
I have been working at this since I created this thread. Getting closer to liking the tone. I still like traditional guitar cabinets for loud play but I am gelling more with IR's and FRFRs now. I think my Boss TAE power amp was giving a higher bass response that was throwing things off. I am now using a tube power amp and I am liking the results. I am picky and I guess I like what tone is in my head. Point made, I love Phil Collen from Def Leppard and his tone. I was really interested in the tone pack that was just released and guess what, I hate the tone. What works for others doesn't work for me, even the patches from the biggest names in the industry. Again, the tone in your head is what you will always gravitate towards. The Fractal is a tool, a great tool if you take the time the hone it in to your personal taste.
 
As I'm waiting for my FM9 purchase invite (hopefully July) I'm working out scenarios to get the system up and running quick when it shows up, Since I run IEM's and will have a FRFR floor monitor just for feedback and sustain does it make sense to set up the FM9 with 2 Headrush 108's in the basement to get it close, then plug into our FOH to tweak it? I'm not really concerned about the IEM's initially but more worried about dialing in what's coming out of the FOH system. Question is how close will I get with the FRFR's to the FOH sound?
 
unix-guy said:
Exactly this... I've said the same thing numerous times over the years.

If you can wrap your head around that it all becomes clear.

Nobody but you (and maybe 1 bandmate on stage) will ever hear the real amp / cab from the same perspective as you... You can hear what FOH and the audience hears instead.

The tones we've all chased forever are all recordings, not a cab in the room...
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FWIW the cab in the room sound/feel with a Loud amp, like a Plexi on 6-7 is unbeatable.

I also really like the axe into my Yamaha’s on lower volume. Amps through Suhr RL. into Axe is also killer. But they are very different experiences. My head and body prefer loud, but my ears don’t, so i need both.
 
Kriig said:
FWIW the cab in the room sound/feel with a Loud amp, like a Plexi on 6-7 is unbeatable.
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Sure... But nobody in the audience (or even your band) is going to hear it the same as you.

And even you will hear it differently depending on where you stand.

If you're mic'ing it up for FOH then you'll get more consistent results with a direct signal.

And if the rest of your band monitors via the mic'd sound, the same applies for them.

But I get it - a loud amp does sound and feel great!

Also, the point being made was about the sounds we chase - we're pretty much all going after recorded tones. When we listen to recorded music we are not hearing the cab in the room.
 
TBF… I could (almost) play a ukulele, with regards to an audience. They rarely care or hear. So inspiration for myself is more important, since thats the reason to play. Don’t make money of playing. Just spending it on gear. 😁💸

Had a period 15-20 years ago that was ok money wise, but those times are over now.
So i’ll probably be selfish if i go out on a gig again.

Hopefully times will change so band and live music will become popular again, so new generations can enjoy playing live.
 
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Sully0556 said:
As I'm waiting for my FM9 purchase invite (hopefully July) I'm working out scenarios to get the system up and running quick when it shows up, Since I run IEM's and will have a FRFR floor monitor just for feedback and sustain does it make sense to set up the FM9 with 2 Headrush 108's in the basement to get it close, then plug into our FOH to tweak it? I'm not really concerned about the IEM's initially but more worried about dialing in what's coming out of the FOH system. Question is how close will I get with the FRFR's to the FOH sound?
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I have the same setup. When the FM9 arrives, install the EQ curve (Output 1, 2, or 3 your choice for the HR cabs) that is being talked about in the "Flattening the Headrush Curve" thread.
Try that at home at 85db to get is sounding right, avoiding the Fletcher Munson curve.
This is going to be fun!!
 
scottp said:
I have the same setup. When the FM9 arrives, install the EQ curve (Output 1, 2, or 3 your choice for the HR cabs) that is being talked about in the "Flattening the Headrush Curve" thread.
Try that at home at 85db to get is sounding right, avoiding the Fletcher Munson curve.
This is going to be fun!!
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Thanks Scott! How well did that translate to your FOH system? I know every system is different but.......
Also once you set it up for the FRFR's, how did it sound in the IEM's? I'm sure I'll find out eventually but I'm trying to get a handle on things in advance. Thanks again!!
 
JoKeR III said:
Going from amps to modeling can be a shock to the system if you're trying to capture the same feel of the "amp in the room". I've said it before in other threads, but my 'aha moment' came when realized that modelers create a guitar sound, the same guitar sound you hear when listening to a CD.

I was listening to a Joe Satriani album at my PC and was thoroughly enjoying it as usual. One time in particular, it struck me as odd that I wasn't thinking that the guitar didn't sound right because the amps weren't in the room with me, it was just good music with great guitar tones. It dawned on me that this is the sound that the AX8 (at the time) was creating.

I was using an amp and cab to power the AX8 but was not really sold on the tones the tones I was getting at home. After listening to the album, I plugged the AX8 into my interface and attempted to create some of the tones I was hearing and wouldn't you know it, I was able to get pretty close! I stopped chasing the AITR sound and began experiencing my guitar tones as recorded sounds. Wrapping my head around this 'philosophy' was a breakthrough for me and really opened the potential of amp modeling, making it much more enjoyable. It's been well over 5 years since I used an amp and cab for any reason, I get everything I need from my Axe III/FM3 through studio monitors.
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So basically it's a case of people new to FRFR or to modelers in general are still expecting it to sound like a real amp the way it does when you stand in front of it yourself and play through one, without perhaps realising it's simulating a recorded guitar sound.

I've always tone matched and jammed along with albums, so my tones sit perfectly in the mix as you would expect, a recorded type of tone playing along with a recorded album, Probably wouldn't work as well with a real amp.

I expect, guys who are used to playing live with a real amp, are used to a different sound entirely which could me missing a little when you go with modeler + FRFR.

It's an interesting comparison actually as to who perceives the difference more, the player or the audience? I'm thinking the audience doesn't know the difference. I do know how fussy guitar players are though when they have a sound in their head that they can't quite nail.
 
I often do a year-end wrap-up of products I tried that I found to be worth recommending. There weren't many this year, but here's one of them, which we'll call my two cents.

The Red Sound MF10s are a new favorite for me. I put them up against a few boutique-y tube combos at an invitational jam a few weeks ago and they simply soared. I used a PEQ to find a spot where I could sit in the mix and copy-pasted it to a few scenes with channel tweaks, and voila. Big sound. Clear sound. Great sound. I'm a stereo junkie, so there's that. I am a lifting lightweight too, and the pair of them weighs less than most tube amps. They're hard to get though, like everything these days.
 
My little iK MTM's are just killer sounding at BR levels and for recording. I just try for what sounds good when I play and these little guys fill that need for me. :) AFA IRs, the only extra IR/thing I'm currently using on the Axe-FX III Mk2 is Leon Todd's 4-12 cab IR. All I need.
 
Admin M@ said:
I often do a year-end wrap-up of products I tried that I found to be worth recommending. There weren't many this year, but here's one of them, which we'll call my two cents.

The Red Sound MF10s are a new favorite for me. I put them up against a few boutique-y tube combos at an invitational jam a few weeks ago and they simply soared. I used a PEQ to find a spot where I could sit in the mix and copy-pasted it to a few scenes with channel tweaks, and voila. Big sound. Clear sound. Great sound. I'm a stereo junkie, so there's that. I am a lifting lightweight too, and the pair of them weighs less than most tube amps. They're hard to get though, like everything these days.
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I have 1 RedSound Elis.8. Has anyone here compared it to the MF10 - not for volume - more for tonal character?
 
Paulzx said:
So basically it's a case of people new to FRFR or to modelers in general are still expecting it to sound like a real amp the way it does when you stand in front of it yourself and play through one, without perhaps realising it's simulating a recorded guitar sound.

I've always tone matched and jammed along with albums, so my tones sit perfectly in the mix as you would expect, a recorded type of tone playing along with a recorded album, Probably wouldn't work as well with a real amp.

I expect, guys who are used to playing live with a real amp, are used to a different sound entirely which could me missing a little when you go with modeler + FRFR.

It's an interesting comparison actually as to who perceives the difference more, the player or the audience? I'm thinking the audience doesn't know the difference. I do know how fussy guitar players are though when they have a sound in their head that they can't quite nail.
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If you're used to only monitoring yourself onstage with your Amp and cab, then I think you're on the right track here.

But a big problem with that is your ears' proximity and placement relative to your cab(s).

As you move around, you will hear things very differently.

On the other hand, if you're used to mostly monitoring yourself onstage with your cab mic'd and coming out of stage monitors, then FRFR (or even just direct to the board coming from the monitors) will give a more consistent experience, plus as you move around the stage you'll be hearing pretty much the same sound from everyone else's monitors, too.

So, everyone onstage is hearing the expected tone.

AND you'll know that the audience is hearing very close to what you're hearing... Which may or may not be important to them, but should be important to you as you've worked hard to get the "perfect" tones.

And you're not dependent on mic placement, which is often haphazardly done during setup.
 
Sully0556 said:
Thanks Scott! How well did that translate to your FOH system? I know every system is different but.......
Also once you set it up for the FRFR's, how did it sound in the IEM's? I'm sure I'll find out eventually but I'm trying to get a handle on things in advance. Thanks again!!
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I used the HR 108's live for personal monitoring before a good forum member posted the Flattening EQ curve.
It may not have been perfect, but that setup was fun. I stand about 7 feet from the drummer, so it is fairly loud.
That was before IEM. The tone at FOH was ok. There are always differences between FOH, IEM, FRFR on floor/on stands etc.
You will just have to find out what works for you. Having a wireless system gives you the opportunity to go out front and hear how you sound.
So I usually do that any time I make a fair bit of change.
I currently use the KZ ZS10 Pros with Comply memory foam tips. The work great for me and the people I play with.
I do not use and stage amplification. My ear mix comes to me from a ME-1 personal mixer. I can get everything dialed in just right.
One of the biggest surprises was getting to hear our keyboard player in full stereo. He creates some amazing presets for the keys.
I can't believe I have missed out on that good sound for like 15 years! :D
 
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