Interesting TM discussion and tips on TGP

yek

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If you've missed it, here's a link to an interesting thread about Tone Matching, with helpful tips from Cliff.

AFX guys--are you as underwhelmed with "Tone Matching" as I am? - The Gear Page

Quotes:

"There are two ways to use the Tone Match function: Offline and Live. Offline allows you to match the sound of a recording. You capture the reference, then you capture your amp/cab models and the Tone Match block creates an IR that matches the amp/cab to the sound of the recording. The Live mode allows you to match an amp model to a real amp. It cleans up any differences between the model and the amp. In this mode you capture the reference and the amp at the same time (being sure to set the Mode switch to Live). It works astonishingly well. Live mode does not do gain matching however so you have to do that manually. The other caveat is that you have to manually select the closest model (competing devices auto-select the closest model). So, for example, if you wanted to Tone Match, say, a Metropoulos amp you would have to understand that this amp is a Plexi derivative and select one of the Plexi models as a base model and manually set the gain to be equal to the amp being matched. With all the models available in the Axe-Fx now some people will naturally feel the feature is less valuable than others. Personally I don't find any use for matching recordings as recorded guitar sounds are so heavily processed they aren't fun to play. I do, however, use Live mode quite often but mostly during the development phase of new models. It's an invaluable tool in that regard."

"You can match either the output of the amp or the output of a cab. To match at the output of an amp you would need a DI box or something to reduce the voltage at the speaker terminals to line level. To match the output at the cab you need a mic and a mic preamp. When you match the output the cab you can then match with out without a cabinet IR running in the unit. The best method is to shoot an IR of the cab/mic/pre and load that into a user cabinet slot. Then do a Tone Match. The other method is to not use a cabinet IR and let the Tone Match block do everything."

"Latency shouldn't matter unless it's very great. If you are getting a phasey sound then something isn't set up correctly. The Tone Match block works extremely well when matching amps but you have to know how to use it. The problem is that most people don't do a simultaneous match. You MUST do a simultaneous match when in Live mode otherwise you'll end up with a phasey sound."

"The Tone Match block itself allows you to select the reference source input. In the template I believe it is set to Input 2 Left. This eliminates having to manually route Input 2 into the block using the FX Loop block. The Reference Source audition is done by connecting the expression pedal to the Ref Solo parameter. When Ref Solo is on the selected reference input is routed to the output of the block. You only really need two or three blocks to do a Live Tone Match: amp, cab (optional) and tone match. I usually put a delay or reverb after the tone match block because I hate a totally dry tone but that's strictly optional."
 
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Perfect timing! I was going to try do my first Tone Match today using my amp with Live mode.

Thanks for the info Yek!
 
As the official match EQ demon I feel like I should pitch in but I'm not on that forum. :) I'll still rant a bit.

If people only took the time to understand what tone matching is actually doing they wouldn't have any problems getting the tones they want. Basically it's simple math:

Guitar sound + guitar amp sound + guitar cab sound = guitar sound + guitar amp sound + tone match sound

But what people don't realize is that your job is to make "guitar sound" and "guitar amp sound" as close as possible to what you're matching if you want tone matching to be accurate. That means your guitar should be similar, your playing should be the same notes played the same way, your amp setting should be close as possible. Of course when doing live tone matching there are less issues here because "guitar sound" will be the exact same thing.

However when you're doing these matches you might want to do a quick tone match and tweak your amp to sound even closer and do the whole tone matching process again from scratch. This reveals the amp settings that were off.

About that TGP thread:

It's funny to me that they're slagging tones in a mix and preferring amp in the room sound because... to be honest the amp in the room sound is just for yourself. Who cares? It's like shooting a hole in one in golf when you're playing alone. :) This raises the question: Do you play guitar so that YOU enjoy music or that YOU perform music (or both). Because in reality the music that people listen to is usually always in the mix and IMO that is way more important.

I'm not saying that people should tweak tones that they can't enjoy themselves but more like guitarists should learn to like tones that they know will fit a mix well. Because there are tones that sound good by themselves and also in the mix. This is what your aim should be IMO. :)

Rant over. :)
 
what people don't realize is that your job is to make "guitar sound" and "guitar amp sound" as close as possible (…) your amp setting should be close as possible
I'm amazed by the accuracy of live tonematching. But the real work is in matching the two amps by ear first. When it's done, the TM curve display only subtle changes
 
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I wouldn't use a cab block in the patch because it's there for nothing really. I might use a cab block when tweaking the amp but I'd definitely bypass it when I start matching. Then again I'm not sure what the resolution for tone matching is since I would still use match EQ instead. Still you're basically wasting CPU if you use it that way. :)
 
The cab block contain the IR of the cab of the amp I'm tonematching, which gives much more precise results. Plus, I don't like the tonematch block as a cab sim ;)

I'll PM you some observations about my findings after doing many tonematchs these last days, there's many interesting things
 
The cab block contain the IR of the cab of the amp I'm tonematching, which gives much more precise results. Plus, I don't like the tonematch block as a cab sim ;)

I'll PM you some observations about my findings after doing many tonematchs these last days, there's many interesting things

Ahh in that case ofcourse!
 
Like this ? here I'm alternating between source and destination with an expression pedal (no captions, sorry, I did this very quickly today before going to work)

http://pages.intnet.mu/fremen/Movies/Kemper_amp_matching.wmv

I'm amazed by the accuracy of live tonematching. But the real work is in matching the two amps by ear first (that's what you see in the video). When it's done, the TM curve display only subtle changes

Where did you get that beta firmware and editor?
 
Where did you get that beta firmware and editor?

Spoiler alert. ;) Looks pretty awesome there Cliff.

Back on the subject, when I want get those frequencies as close as possible, I Tweak, TM, tweak TM.
It can be very time consuming sure, but if you don't have the amp or cab and you're doing it by ear, guess it depends on how bad you want that tone. I haven't done this in quite awhile, but my results were great. Might not be the "correct" way, but it works.
 
Hey Hyper Planet, mind to share this preset please?

Yea for sure !

Version 1 : I recommend select an IR from OH HGE MESA pack, 412-GTR_MES-ST_HGE_V30-CH-16 from Mixes IRs folder.
Preset: Axe-Change - Download Preset - The Enemy Inside(Birthdaygift) - by Amin Saffar

Version 2 :
I recommend select an IR from CK TEH Dollar,

Preset: Axe-Change - Download Preset - Amin's MllC+ BRT, Norm - by Amin Saffar

my suggestions are :

1-TEH Shure SM57 A4
2-TEH Shure SM57 A5
3-TEH Shure SM57 B5

hope you enjoy !
 
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