Interest for Digitech Patch ports? (2101/2120/2112/ValveFX)

[Mr2MkII]

Let's face it, some of us still have love for these 'ol Digitech classic rack units! Some of you have probably kept them rather then selling! They may be hiding in the closet (along with our spandex pants, that we claim to know nothing about, and should probably sell to Steel Panther :lol ). For some of us, there are patches that we can call part of our sound, and I know I certainly come back to it's tube & grunge distortions and I LOVE it's quad chorus! The CC distortion morph ability on the 2120 is also cool. Sure they're tone suckers, but sometimes this distortion added to the flavor, and helped shape the sound in a good way. I personally ran my JSX/H&K amps (Lerxst fan boy here) and used the GSP-2101 for my effects for years, and then later kept it for just some (Whammy/Grunge/Booster/Chorus).

With my MK II unit on it's way, I am excited and yet anxious. I'm really looking forward to hearing what it can do, but also "freshening up" some of my older sounds. At the same time, I'm worried about loosing some of my old. From searching, I see that DLM had kindly ported 10 or so of his favorite patches (Thanks man!). I also see requests for a "grunge" model/replicate for the drive section, but unsure if anyone ever sufficiently managed doing.

So as I'm obviously going to be porting many of my 2101/etc... patches to the the Axe-FX2. Thus I'm curious if there is community interest & requests for these? I literally have all of these in my rack, and will be meticulously comparing and tone shaping them. (My GSP-2101 is a dual S-disc w/20Mhz modification & 2120 is the latest Artist Version.) While I don't plan to replicate the tube pre-amp section as I'm sure that's well covered in amp models, I do want to try and mimic the analog circuit distortions. Since I'm just getting my unit, they will likely be based on the Rev 17.X FW.

Let me know!

 

[WW Audio]

I still have my fully loaded GSP 2101 Artist with the PPC card and f/w 3.x as well as the foot controller. My Axe XL covers pretty much all the ground I need to cover, though I do admit to not being able to convincingly cover the synthy sounding GSP patches for a couple of the string swells I really liked. I know the XL can do em, but I'm still working out how. As for the tube pre-amp section, it was more gimmicky than anything else. I swapped those tubes out with a variety of Ruby's, Sovtek's and even a Mullard and there was no appreciable difference. No matter, I used my 2101 for nearly 20 years before retiring it when I got the Axe and still can't quite bring myself to sell it.

 

[Mr2MkII]

Glad to hear you've been happy with the XL as a replacement to the 2101! Not that they are anywhere close to the same league, but one does become dependent on their "sound" once found. Heck many spend their whole lives trying to find it! Since I haven't known anyone nearby to actually try myself, I've had to go on you-tube & sound clips. (BTW Cooper's series going through all the patches really helped in my decision.!)

I swapped those tubes out with a variety of Ruby's, Sovtek's and even a Mullard and there was no appreciable difference. No matter, I used my 2101 for nearly 20 years...

I did much the same, from Tung-sol, JJ's, GTs, etc...and never found the tube pre to be anything beyond passible. What I liked, is the 2101 let me bypass that section (4CM), and let me use the FX with my JSX. On the patches where I DID use distortion, it was always the Grunge for really raunchy crunch. I've never been a pedal guy, so I really don't know what emulated drive pedals would come close to such. I own a modded TS-9 and that's it for pedals! Bottom line, I'm not sure I'll be able to re-create those patches.

The swells were also very nice and smooth on these units, great on song intros!

I've tried other gear since '98 to replace the 2101...each time, I tried to port my sounds, and they simply didn't cut it. What I found, is just because you call an effect something, doesn't mean the algorithm will be/sound the same, or have the same parameters. Units like TC G-Major/2 somewhat fit the bill, especially for reducing coloration, but the way their chorus/phaser/flanger sounded was not the same...so it became a dedicated verb/delay box. So I kept going back to Digitech, only to find their newer units not living up. I tried the GSP1101, and was wholly disappointed. Seems the 2101 & 2120 came from their golden age, and went downhill after that.

So here comes the Axe FX, with low SNR & huge customization of FX. I sold a mint JP6 Mystic Dream to afford it, and now I'm giddy as a schoolgirl for it's arrival tomorrow! When it does, the first test will be to port some of patches, and then drool at the clear lusciousness of 20+ year newer technology!

 

[WW Audio]

You're gonna love the Axe. There's a bit of a learning curve, but if you created patches on the GSP's you shouldn't have much trouble - the Axe's are pretty intuitive actually. Just be aware that these boxes have a LOT more tweakability than the Digitech's ever did. Take your time with it, RTFM, read up here in the forum and Fractal Wiki page - tons of helpful info on those sources. It's a great community of dedicated tone junkies. I had been seriously leaning towards getting an Axe due to the various sound clips on the web site but, yeah, Cooper's vids showcasing every preset sealed the deal for me.

As for re-creating actual analog gear, you might be surprised. There are two TS options in the Drive block - the original and the modded - that are pretty darn convincing. In any case, half the fun of the Axe's isn't so much re-creating tones from the past, but creating the cool tones of the future. You have every conceivable brush and pallet available to you to paint with. I've had my XL for about 6 months now and I'm still finding ways to create tones I've only ever had in my head. It's way more fun than a grown man should be allowed to have.

 

[Rex]

Digitech made some nice stuff...

...but my money says that, after less than a week with the Axe, duplicating your Digitech sounds won't be a priority.

 

[plyall]

... and with Axe-Edit you'll be completely relieved that you don't have to go back to programming a patch the Digitech way (map it out on paper, and then slowly and diligently map the FX and the paths/mixers in the tiny screen). As you might guess, I had one as well. Sold it after I got the Axe. You will too - believe me/us.

 

[Mr2MkII]

but if you created patches on the GSP's you shouldn't have much trouble - the Axe's are pretty intuitive actually. Just be aware that these boxes have a LOT more tweakability than the Digitech's ever did.

programming a patch the Digitech way (map it out on paper, and then slowly and diligently map the FX and the paths/mixers in the tiny screen).

Yeah making custom patches on the 2101 wasn't the easiest thing, all those darn mixers, which I understand is at the end of each FX block in the Axe. Then I started using windows based patch editor program, thinking EVERY FX unit should have something like this....BOOM Axe-EDIT...yeah baby! Still the 2101 was much more flexible than the later 2120, which continued to limit you to "algorithm" sets, so I didn't mind.

...but my money says that, after less than a week with the Axe, duplicating your Digitech sounds won't be a priority.

lol, you may be right indeed! Still, when your playing your own stuff from the past, it's good recreate the sound from the album. So I'm sure there will be at least a few, and they'll sound like a rusty car that was perfectly restored, waxed, and shiny! While I'm positive I'll find new inspirations on this unit, the old sounds will likely still feel like "home" for a while.

In preparation though, I've bought a weeks supply of water, snacks, wet naps, strings, and other perishables...I don't know how long I'll be held up in the studio, but I'm sure Dubstep will be out of style by the time I get out.

 

[Rex]

I get where you're coming from. Many of us were in the same place once, eagerly waiting for our very first Fractal box to arrive, flush with plans to recreate the patches from our previous gear. For me, it was the Roland GP-100. Then the package arrives, you fire it up, play it a bit, and then you say, "Oh..."

You feel and hear what it can do, and you start thinking in terms of "better than before" instead of "the same as before." I still duplicated the effects chains from a couple of my presets, leaning toward the same tones, but I quickly realized the value in starting over from scratch.

But who knows? Your journey may be different. You're not me, and vice-versa. Maybe many tone dupes are in your future. But after four years on the forum, duplicating tones from other processors is a topic that rarely comes up. Nostalgia for the old gear? Sure. I still miss that gold-tone panel looking at me from my rack. But I fired it up recently, scrolled through some of my old patches, and...nah.


Bottom line: don't let anybody tell you what to do with your Axe-Fx. Certainly not me.

 

[Mr2MkII]

But after four years on the forum, duplicating tones from other processors is a topic that rarely comes up. Nostalgia for the old gear? Sure. I still miss that gold-tone panel looking at me from my rack. But I fired it up recently, scrolled through some of my old patches, and...nah.

I'm pretty set on my clean/mid-gain tone on my JSX, and high gain on my H&K amps, that I'll still be using (mostly). So I'll likely follow your advice and ignore porting any analog distortions and focus on the FX patch ports for now. When I've done blind audit tests of Amps vs. Axe FX, I guessed the amp versions correctly 90% of the time. I'm not a tube amp purist, though I do love a good one. I tend to go with whatever is pleasing to my ear. The "grunge" from the 2101 sounded great through the clean channel of my JSX, and is one of my primary "go to" lead tones when I don't need dynamics.

What would be cool, for those circuit geeks among us, if we could build a virtual circuit (like in a form of LabView or other sim), compile the model, and load it into the unit to audition it. Then tweek diodes / Op-Amps, caps, etc... Would be cool and very educational. I can see "modelers" being the future, and instead of companies releasing physical pedals, they release virtual models.

 

[dr bonkers]

As a former Johnson Millennium JM-150 user (which was an amp brother to the 2101), I can say that you are in for a real treat.

I don't even think about the old unit anymore except for the J-12 foot controller. I wish I could have used that with the Fractal easily.

Prepare for even better cleans and more shades of crunch than you can imagine.

 

[lauke-lux]

Sold my 2101LE used from 2003 to 2011 after acquisition of the ULTRA in 2011. Then bought back another a few months later as I had a very long and steep learning curve with the ULTRA but finally resold it 3 months later before it would value only the weight of it's screws. Am on Axe II since 2012 and wouldn't get back to my digitech anymore now. The 2101 would work perfect with combo amps as with the Axe Fx II I definitely changed to FRFR amplification. 2101 even at 20 years age remains a great unit but cannot come close enough to the Axe FX II to keep it IMHO. Changed the tubes to JJ's and found the clean or soft distorted sounds were way better to the ear.
Cheers

 

[Mr2MkII]

The 2101 would work perfect with combo amps as with the Axe Fx II I definitely changed to FRFR amplification.

Interesting, what specifically drove you to go FRFR? Both live & recording? Whilst I plan to do so recording, for live I intend to still use the Axe-FX in 4CM. (Mainly so I can choose to use the Tube Amp pre, or the model in the Axe). That along with my Tube Amps (x2 for stereo) power amp section and my 2x(2x12) Marshall Celestian Greenback cabs. Obviously I'd have a global to turn off cab-emulation when doing so, and will have to look at disabling the power amp portion of the amp model.

BTW, my unit arrived last night! Least to say I didn't much sleep last night, and only managed to evaluate 50 presets! Thus far, I'm really impressed with many of the models and the clarity on cleans! I'm just auditioning with headphones for now. I haven't had the day-time hours to audition it on my FRFRs (Yamaha MT10s). I've found at least two amps I've never played before, that I would love to own!:encouragement:

Tonight I plan to port at least a few from the 'ol Digi.

 

[Rex]

I've found at least two amps I've never played before, that I would love to own!:encouragement:

Now you own them.

 

[leagueofkruger]

I would be interested to hear any ported 2101 Artist programs - Morse Clean Chords, Mayzing Chorus and Quad Detune were my go-to faves, and I think I also spent a lot of time with Metal Rhythm (#14? Yngwie artist patch). Haven't turned it on in a long time, but its still in the rack.... never had a problem with it....

 

[Mr2MkII]

Morse Clean Chords, Mayzing Chorus and Quad Detune were my go-to faves,

Those are excellent examples, I even have Mayzing Chorus on my primary patch bank (top 5) right now! I'll add those to my list and post when I'm happy with the conversions.

Now you own them.

Heh heh, guess I do now! :mrgreen

 

[lauke-lux]

Interesting, what specifically drove you to go FRFR? Both live & recording? Whilst I plan to do so recording, for live I intend to still use the Axe-FX in 4CM. (Mainly so I can choose to use the Tube Amp pre, or the model in the Axe). That along with my Tube Amps (x2 for stereo) power amp section and my 2x(2x12) Marshall Celestian Greenback cabs. Obviously I'd have a global to turn off cab-emulation when doing so, and will have to look at disabling the power amp portion of the amp model.

BTW, my unit arrived last night! Least to say I didn't much sleep last night, and only managed to evaluate 50 presets! Thus far, I'm really impressed with many of the models and the clarity on cleans! I'm just auditioning with headphones for now. I haven't had the day-time hours to audition it on my FRFRs (Yamaha MT10s). I've found at least two amps I've never played before, that I would love to own!:encouragement:

Tonight I plan to port at least a few from the 'ol Digi.

What pushed me was that with my combo amps (Fender DLR and another tweed amp) I simply didn't get a fine sound from the Axe Fx and I found it limiting not to be able to profit of all Axe FX power amp simulations live or in reahearsal. Further got pissed by carrying heavy combo amps while a good floor monitor will do the job better with the Axe FX.
As for porting 2101LE patches to Axe Fx, I tried for half a year - in fact until I digged the functionning of the Axe FX matrix layout as from the LE2101 it was a long way... - but then found it way easier to get my sounds by dialing in directly on Axe Fx.

 

[Markom]

I can appreciate the sentiment that the Digitech 2101-2120 units still receive ... I went through every Digitech 2100 series unit possible and thought nothing would ever come close. Did the GSP1101 thing as well (thought the Digitech Control 2 was built like a tank - too bad it's proprietary). However, I also am a Digitech to Fractal convert; sold three Artist units to help pay for my first Ultra ... After struggling a little with the Fractal signal chain philosophy and extreme level of control over every parameter on every link in the signal chain, it took me about 10 minutes to view the Axe units as the "Second Coming" of rack-based preamp/effects units. Not that the Digitech units were toys, just that the level of functionality, control, versatile, flexibility and real-world replication of so many amps/cabs/effects were head and shoulders above anything I thought possible (or ever experienced with the Digitech units). I'm sure many ex-Digitech users remember "Dieter" that may still be the last human on earth to program the PPC and firmware chips - to call him 2100 series genius and superior 2100 player is an understatement. I wonder if he's considered or made the Axe-FX transition?

 

[lauke-lux]

I can appreciate the sentiment that the Digitech 2101-2120 units still receive ... I went through every Digitech 2100 series unit possible and thought nothing would ever come close. Did the GSP1101 thing as well (thought the Digitech Control 2 was built like a tank - too bad it's proprietary). However, I also am a Digitech to Fractal convert; sold three Artist units to help pay for my first Ultra ... After struggling a little with the Fractal signal chain philosophy and extreme level of control over every parameter on every link in the signal chain, it took me about 10 minutes to view the Axe units as the "Second Coming" of rack-based preamp/effects units. Not that the Digitech units were toys, just that the level of functionality, control, versatile, flexibility and real-world replication of so many amps/cabs/effects were head and shoulders above anything I thought possible (or ever experienced with the Digitech units). I'm sure many ex-Digitech users remember "Dieter" that may still be the last human on earth to program the PPC and firmware chips - to call him 2100 series genius and superior 2100 player is an understatement. I wonder if he's considered or made the Axe-FX transition?

Thumbs up for all of that, Dieter, who doesn't know Dieter when having a 2101 Unit. Got from him several FW upgrades and repair advices when my unit broke down in Asia "6000 miles" away. I also wondered if he'd made the step to Axe Fx; he could have.

Never tried another Digitech after the LE2101, always thought they made a strategic error when switching to those cheaper units and floorboards. Did get myself an RP255 lately though for being able to play during professionnal travelling, a toy but fun anyway.

 

[Mr2MkII]

Well, during the holiday, I've begun to port the following;

1-Cuccurillo Lead
2-Mayzing Chorus
3-Funkenstein
4-Step it up

I also just added two more in a later post:

5- String Volume Swell
6- Synth Pad Swell

I must admit, I'm having a difficult time translating the 'ol Digitech mixers. When the mix is a 100% from previous block plus 100% of the current block, it's easy, just make the mix 50%. The problems I'm running into are:

1)the way multiple previous block signals will each run parallel to ahead blocks, then mixing...so you could have the output of effect A, mixing with effect B, and effect C. Take a look at Alg 20 (picture below).


2)The way the 2101 can split the L & R channel so an effect block only inputs that channel (don't know how to take the stereo input line in Axe-edit and make the input L or R to a new fx block.

3)The digital fx stage of the GSP-2101 sums wet/dry at the very end, which is like having a line from the cab, go all the way to a mixer at the end...

I know the shunts/lines are stereo in Axe-FX, but I need most blocks to have an "input-select." I noticed some did in fact have this, but not all? When I can't use the output mix to replicate the 3x1 and higher "mixers" by using the mixer block, but only two are allowed, and some digitech algorithms use 4+ . The algorithm pic above is just one example. Then since any time two shunts meet, they sum, I'm also running out of independent mix path/shunt lines...4-rows isn't always enough.

Soooo maybe because I'm new, and though I've refered back to the manual often, I'm just not easily able to replicate all the complex "mixers" digitech used. Due to this I can't get the FXs to mimic the original patch perfectly. I've attached two below, so that you can check them out and maybe slap me up the head, and tell me what I'm doing wrong, or over complicating things! Any Feedback welcomed!

 

[Rex]

The problems I'm running into are:

1)the way multiple previous block signals will each run parallel to ahead blocks, then mixing...so you could have the output of effect A, mixing with effect B, and effect C. Take a look at Alg 20 (picture below).

Two of the mixer blocks in Alg 20 can be eliminated by using the mixers built into the individual effects (the Digi doesn't have that capability). Use the previous effect's BALANCE control to set its relative left/right levels, then use the current effect's MIX control to blend the signals together.

Many of the mixer inputs in Alg 20 are separate lefts and rights for a single effect. BALANCE and MIX can reduce that count.
Alg 20 can be reduced to three rows, one Mixer block, and the output mixer.

2)The way the 2101 can split the L & R channel so an effect block only inputs that channel (don't know how to take the stereo input line in Axe-edit and make the input L or R to a new fx block.

Put a Volume block at the start of the row, and set its INPUT SELECT to Left. Put another Volume block at the start of the next row, and set that one to Right. Now you have a row with only the left signal, and another row with only the right signal.

3)The digital fx stage of the GSP-2101 sums wet/dry at the very end, which is like having a line from the cab, go all the way to a mixer at the end...I need most blocks to have an "input-select."

No you don't. See above.