I'm Just Going to Leave This Here

$10 per amp model seems a bit high to me.

It seems reasonable to me, considering how much Kemper amp profiles sell for.
At least with this you get a full, high quality amp model, which you can tweak as you wish. With the Kemper you only get a "snapshot" of the amp at any one particular setting.
 
This is simple economic mathematic. The simple problem is (and that`s what you do NOT learn at University ;) ), you don`t know all parameters: How many Amps will customers use, need, wanted and how much are they willing to pay.

The difference to the toner/cartridge is: There is no consumption once you buyed an Amp. Cartridges are supplies, Amp-Sims not. This change the calculation basis a lot...

Normally you`ll calculate an average revenue per unit (street price). Because the marginal cost per Amp-Sim is nearly zero, you loose profit in the first line, when selling the unit for less, to lower the potential buyers barriere.

This concept works, if you get enough consumers buying so many additional Amps, that the assumed average revenue could be reached (break even). Some will buy no additionals, resulting in a underperforming revenue, some will buy more, resulting in a overperforming revenue.

This concept give you the chance to scale unit production because of lower entry level, resulting perhaps in lower production price per unit and in fact a "floating consumer price", because consumers pay what the want or are willing for (through accumulate additional extras like Amp-Sims).

This COULD be a winning concept, but the risk of miscalculation increase, because of entlarging the amount of unknown parameters.

Technical issues like update process, sim-protection, etc...ignored...
 
I've seen many people state that they can't justify dropping the cash for an Axe-FX II because they think it's overkill for them. They can't see paying that much when they'd probably only use a few amp/cab/verb/delay presets and don't need all of the effects and routing options. This should come in at a price point that a lot of people will find easier to justify, won't be so much overkill, and eliminates the need to purchase a MIDI foot controller.
When you actually think about it, the Axe II plus a cheap midi controller is actually very easy to justify, even for the amateur or even beginner guitar player.
Stompboxes nowadays have gotten ridicolously expensive (in europe, at least). And so did cables and amplifiers (if you want tube, that is).

When I purchased the Axe, I did some pre-calculations about what I would need to buy instead to break even. And that was much less than you would initially think.
Just two quality budget amps (one for distortion, one for crunch/clean) alone sum up to 1500€ easily (I selected a Marshall 50 Watt head and a nice and sweet ENGL head combined with a budget 4x12 cab). Add in the tremendous cost for at least one delay and reverb pedal, and you hover somewhere around 2000€ already.
Add in an EQ, a drive, a fuzz, a chorus and a phaser/flanger, such as cables to patch everything up (2 quality long cables, a bunch of patch cables) and you easily touch the 2500€ mark already - and that only considering mid-quality pedals, avoiding the overpriced BOSS stomps.
That's still a gap of like 800€ if we take the MFC and expression pedals instead of using a budget midi controller. But I think that is a reasonable investment for the reduced luggage, no more issues with faulty cables and no more volume issues because your amp sounds shit at low master volume.

The Axe II is a damn good deal, even for those that only need one or two amp sounds and just basic effects. Even affordable starter gear at decent quality is expensive nowadays.
 
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We've been contemplating that. This would lower the initial cost. Then sell amp models at $10 each or something.

I would highly welcome that. I use maybe 10% of the amp and cab models in my Axe Fx II.

For me, the Axe II is total feature overkill, I need a choice of 10 to 20 amps, a few more cabs maybe, chorus, phaser, flanger, delay, reverb, and maybe some EQ and compression and that's it.

If the AX8 Comes with reamping capability (don't care if it is through SPDIF i/o or USB Audio Interface capability) and the AX8 is priced in a way that I could sell my Axe Fx II, buy the AX8 instead and still have a few hundred Euros left, I would be very tempted to do that instantly and rather invest into an additional guitar. At the moment, i only have a Mike Mushok baritone which is fine for the project I am working on right now, but at some point I will need a normal scale length guitar again...

EDIT: One more thing comes to mind - I think it would really be fun actually to go amp hunting in a "Fractal Audio amp model custom shop"...!!!!
 
With all respect to anyone that would indeed like this option, and I'm sure whatever Cliff decides on will be the best option and all. I personally would not like this implementation into the AX8 benefits aside. Don't get me wrong I understand it and all that groovy jazz, but yeah not for me, everyone's got a preference....
It's all good either way, one can adapt.
 
With all respect to anyone that would indeed like this option, and I'm sure whatever Cliff decides on will be the best option and all. I personally would not like this implementation into the AX8 benefits aside. Don't get me wrong I understand it and all that groovy jazz, but yeah not for me, everyone's got a preference....
It's all good either way, one can adapt.

Yeah, such stuff is difficult business decisions. You will never be able to meet everybody's preferences. Everybody has good reasons for them, so there is not one exclusively right way to do it. Whatever Cliff decides on, it will be a compromise and appeal to one part of the user base more than to another.
 
Definitely.

"Argue" maybe not, but I think it is helpful if as many potential customers as possible voice their preferences, because that makes it easier for FAS to see what the majority of the user base desires and make an informed business decision. Although you never know, of course, if the small snippet you see on a forum thread is representative.
 
I would appreciate the possibility to import amp models from the AxeFX II or XL to the AX8. I will buy the AX8 immediately as a backup and fly rig. That being said, I only use a few amp models and effects in my patches, so the AxeFX II is pure luxury for me.
 

Cliff, care to comment on whether a Tone Match block would be included on the AX8 ??
Not to do Tone Matching on the AX8 but to load TM's saved from an Axe II.
A TM-load block would be killer for many things and most importantly (for me anyway) to still have perfect acustic guitar tones from a piezo-equipped electric guitar.
Here's hoping...
 
I would appreciate the possibility to import amp models from the AxeFX II or XL to the AX8. I will buy the AX8 immediately as a backup and fly rig. That being said, I only use a few amp models and effects in my patches, so the AxeFX II is pure luxury for me.
Cliff stated before, that this will be so...

Cliff, care to comment on whether a Tone Match block would be included on the AX8 ??
Not to do Tone Matching on the AX8 but to load TM's saved from an Axe II.
A TM-load block would be killer for many things and most importantly (for me anyway) to still have perfect acustic guitar tones from a piezo-equipped electric guitar.
Here's hoping...
If it`s not included: Save TM as CAB IR and import to User slot in the AX8... i`m sure, this should be available...
 
... It's a common business model nowadays: sell the product for less than you normally would and make up the difference in software downloads or monthly fees. The lower the entry cost the more people will buy one. ...

I like simple setup: od, wha, amp, cab, delay, modulation. That's rock'n'roll. I like the concept of simple chain, thus I find very interesting AX8 vs II; I don't like the idea of "additional amps". I stay away from those products, I like new (rediscovered!) fractal concept to deal with the customer: direct contact, fully product, free update. I will buy without doubt an AX8 if it is "complete", probably I will not buy it if I will be forced to try & buy many amps every new project I enjoy.
 
If it`s not included: Save TM as CAB IR and import to User slot in the AX8... i`m sure, this should be available...

yep - I was sort of thinking that would be the work around - but with a TM-load block you can have an "acoustic scene" in a preset and go from a overdriven solo (scene 1) with delays and have spillover and acoustic sound (scene 2) from the same preset vs having to switch preset for acoustic.
Just easier and more song-preset orientated for when I do stand-ins, one off jobs and such.
 
I'm not sure what to think of the idea of DLC for the AX8.
I know there are several advantages; like being able to custom-select the features (= models) that the user wants without having to pay for stuff he don't need. Especially if the models are of the same quality as the models in the Axe, this would be phenomenal idea from a customer's point of view.

But there's two major downsides to this aswell:
- it limits creativity; part of the appeal of the Axe is the endless possibilities it offers and the idea that you can play around with them as much as you want
- I think it would cannibalize on the Axe II sales big time ... the pricing on the Axe II is already what I would consider "aggressive pricing" (considering the huge amount of features you get, the Axe II is insanely cheap with just 2 and a half grand) ... just imagine what would happen if you basicly get a unit equal to the Axe II for half the price, then only need to invest 200$ more to get all the models you need. What reason would I have to invest into the Axe II instead, especially as the AX8 includes the floorboard aswell

And what about piracy? What security means could you take to prevent illegal sharing of purchased modules?


Don't get me wrong; customizability and DLC are incredibly powerful business trends; customized products are the big thing of the 21st century... but I think this wouldn't work with the Axe II in its current form.

I think, to really make this work, the same business model would have to be applied to the Axe II aswell:
Get the unit for the price of it's main components and then offer DLC models. In that case, with the pricing of the AX8 and the Axe II somewhat comparable, it's actually just a decision of taste, not a decision of price.



I could imagine something like this:

AX8: 1000-1200$ + 10$ per amp model; only 1 amp and cab at the same time
Axe II reissue: 1500-1700$ + 10$ per amp model; 2 amps and cabs at the same time; additional routing options; requires midi floorboard

That way, there's no real competition between both units:
- The AX8 is cheaper, making it the perfect choice for people that don't need masses of features, yet don't want to compromise on sound
- The Axe II offers dual-amp settings and allows freedom of floorboard choice, but at additional cost (plus the floorboard, of course)



TBH, I would rather see a Fractal modelling guitar. Imagine if Variax guitars had good build quality... People would buy the shit out of them. I still wonder why nobody jumped on the modelling guitar train yet. Variax would be awesome if they had better quality.
EDIT: A quick research showed that Line6 now cooperates with Yamaha for a 2015 Variax model. So the new Variaxes are basicly Pacificas with more electronics. Not too surprised about this, tbh.
 
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It seems reasonable to me, considering how much Kemper amp profiles sell for.
At least with this you get a full, high quality amp model, which you can tweak as you wish. With the Kemper you only get a "snapshot" of the amp at any one particular setting.

I have no idea how much KPA profiles go for.

I am familiar with the price of IR's and how many IR's you get in the cab packs. Not an apples to apples comparison, but that's where I was coming from.

Fractal can do whatever they think makes the most business sense, and my input is of little value. But I'll leave another thought here anyway. A purchase model that is tiered based on the number of amps you choose to purchase would also make sense. 1 for $10, 3 for $20, 5 for $30, etc... would be very attractive to some buyers.
 
If FAS gives us 10-20 popular amps from all genre, lets us choose an additional 10 to unlock when we receive the unit, I don't have a problem paying for additional amps as needed. Or even different purchase options with the ability to buy upgrades later may even be better.
I'm not much a fan of after purchase sells but in the spirit of future development and keeping FAS a healthy company I would support this idea.
 
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