IK announces profiling / capturing software for regular computers

At first glance it looks intriguing. On paper looks even better. However, I feel like it's just a quick and cheap version of tone matching and deviating from the original tone match or snap shot will result in sounding nothing like the tone desired. I personally dislike this type of approach that is why I have the Axe and not Neural DSP or kemper. Also, I never really cared for Amplitubes modeling. I'm sure many people will enjoy this and if it's easier for them to achieve their ideal tone, that's what it is all about. I'm sure I will give it a try as well.
 
Unfortunately “AI” is a new buzzword that they toss around as if it’s some sort of magical panacea for every situation.

AI can’t handle cases/situations it hasn’t been trained to handle. Maybe, eventually, given enough time and inputs and a fast enough computer it could match what an expert engineer could do in a single pass, but it’s still not going to capture what happens in an amp for every variation of the sound as we turn its knobs. And that’s why I have no interest in what else is out there. They’re not flexible enough to deal with the in-between settings that a modeler is designed to handle.
 
What I'm concerned about hearing this is, profiling becomes the "de-facto" standard approach for guitar amp simulation and consumers start to regard Fractal as an obsolete player for not having profiling functionality, regardless of Cliff and our belief...
 
km 202257 said:
What I'm concerned about hearing this is, profiling becomes the "de-facto" standard approach for guitar amp simulation and consumers start to regard Fractal as an obsolete player for not having profiling functionality, regardless of Cliff and our belief...
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I think, if for some illogical reason it became a "must have" for all modellers, Fractal would probably just implement some form of it to get it out of the way (and probably do it better than anyone else). In the mean time - I'm certainly not gassing for it.
 
Heavyplayer said:
At first glance it looks intriguing. On paper looks even better. However, I feel like it's just a quick and cheap version of tone matching and deviating from the original tone match or snap shot will result in sounding nothing like the tone desired. I personally dislike this type of approach that is why I have the Axe and not Neural DSP or kemper. Also, I never really cared for Amplitubes modeling. I'm sure many people will enjoy this and if it's easier for them to achieve their ideal tone, that's what it is all about. I'm sure I will give it a try as well.
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I had Amplitube and it recorded ok but I only had one good tone and every track basically sounded the same... now it sounds intolerable to me. I wasted a lot of money on IK Multimedia products, and they are all basically obsolete, and the hardware was always a pain to set up and unreliable for me. I don't care about the tone match so much either as has been said by others here on the forum. From what I've learned about it is it not totally geared toward recording? Or is that the point that others here are saying that it will not sound as well or useuable from what was "imaged"?
 
km 202257 said:
What I'm concerned about hearing this is, profiling becomes the "de-facto" standard approach for guitar amp simulation and consumers start to regard Fractal as an obsolete player for not having profiling functionality, regardless of Cliff and our belief...
Click to expand...
The thing about that is the reoccurring statement I hear from people who have profilers, both friends, and strangers, is they spend a lot of money trying to get a sound, buying profiles someone else made of an amp, and no matter what they do they can’t get it to sound good. Everyone has an idea how a particular amp should sound so they twiddle the knobs, like we’re supposed to be able to do, and the unit doesn’t react right.

I know there are some professionals who use profilers, but I suspect they captured the sound of their favorite amp at the settings they use so there’s no need for them to adjust the sound further. They consistently get the same sound, which is great for them. For the rest, they remain frustrated. Their frustration then gets applied to all digital amps because they don’t know enough about the technology to understand that there’s a major difference between profilers and modelers, and that modelers come in differing levels of sound quality, realism, and depth of their ability to be adjusted.

And that’s where we fit in.
 
Greg Ferguson said:
I know there are some professionals who use profilers, but I suspect they captured the sound of their favorite amp at the settings they use so there’s no need for them to adjust the sound further. They consistently get the same sound, which is great for them. For the rest, they remain frustrated. Their frustration then gets applied to all digital amps because they don’t know enough about the technology to understand that there’s a major difference between profilers and modelers, and that modelers come in differing levels of sound quality, realism, and depth of their ability to be adjusted.
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I hate to even mention QC anymore, but they've been getting another round of attention since the latest FW upgrade so I took some looks at reviews. I found one really interesting review (believe it was the Worship Tutorial guys) that explained QC doesn't really model amps (news to me). For a given amp, they take a series of profiles (think of them like snapshots) at various settings. So the amp "model" is more akin to a kid's flip cartoon book that simulates animation.
 
km 202257 said:
What I'm concerned about hearing this is, profiling becomes the "de-facto" standard approach for guitar amp simulation and consumers start to regard Fractal as an obsolete player for not having profiling functionality, regardless of Cliff and our belief...
Click to expand...

Why should we be concerned? I've never heard of an owner of a Hi-End TV without these silly blue/red 3D glasses concerned about the existence of cheap TVs with blue/red 3D glasses
 
Admin M@ said:
In our niche industry, Artificial Intelligence is starting to have the same ring as "Artificial Sweetener." Or maybe these day, the A should just stand for "Alleged."
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Snake oil still exists. Acquiring a limited set of characteristics (tuned to be easily digestible for human perception) while framing them with an eq curve isn't accurate tube amp modeling. A lot use the term subjective which is true for personal preference. Accuracy in modeling tube amps isn't subjective, there are clearly different levels of achievement with all the devices out there.
 
I've used Amplitube for a long time among other plugins. Over the years its gone from one of my least to most fav - they've really stepped up their game imo wrt the plugin world. Plugins are still not in the same league as hw based modelling imo, but it's getting there and is an exciting space to watch, but still, tone capture features tend not to interest me much if I can have the full enchilada models.
 
Well, look at it this way. Tech changes and so do companies. IK still has some solid useable products. I am going to hedge that the future of modeling is going to need to get more "open" vs "less open" because in order for it to ultimately get pushed over the goal line to conclude and debunk the age-old argument of - is it "as good" as the real thing?

I am guessing a more open user environment is going to be ONE of the key factors. So many players have their specialty gear, so that is where this is going to be settled - and even then it might not to some lol. Who might be the hardest critics of modeling? ..... our former EVH (who wouldn't even use Protools!) And currently maybe Joe Bonamassa.

This is where you get folks who play like they play and think like they think to do the unthinkable - recreate "their" gear and hop on the digital wagon.

Now having said this, yes, to me, Fractal is the best digital solution, currently, for a lot reasons. However, QC is a really good device and works well. Kemper is solid as well. Even the Helix can get you there. Their profiling capabilities are just not there yet - but just as I said "yet" there is probably some engineering wizard working on it.

IF it happens, the question is "when?" Has IK solved it? Don't know. We have to try it to find out, right?

I don't know much, yet, about IK's 'new solution' but I am sure it will come across our studio desk once it hits.

Lastly, Joe Satriani recorded a bunch of recent tracks using IK models as well as a session Alex Lifeson just did - so there is that....Alex even toured using IK models on a laptop on top of his rig.
 
Brucegregori said:
Well, look at it this way. Tech changes and so do companies. IK still has some solid useable products. I am going to hedge that the future of modeling is going to need to get more "open" vs "less open" because in order for it to ultimately get pushed over the goal line to conclude and debunk the age-old argument of - is it "as good" as the real thing?
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IMHO the future of digital amps is to get rid of the ball and chain of "how does it compare to a tube amp?". The goal should be to sound pleasing, not to sound like some other technology.
 
Brucegregori said:
Well, look at it this way. Tech changes and so do companies. IK still has some solid useable products. I am going to hedge that the future of modeling is going to need to get more "open" vs "less open" because in order for it to ultimately get pushed over the goal line to conclude and debunk the age-old argument of - is it "as good" as the real thing?

I am guessing a more open user environment is going to be ONE of the key factors. So many players have their specialty gear, so that is where this is going to be settled - and even then it might not to some lol. Who might be the hardest critics of modeling? ..... our former EVH (who wouldn't even use Protools!) And currently maybe Joe Bonamassa.

This is where you get folks who play like they play and think like they think to do the unthinkable - recreate "their" gear and hop on the digital wagon.

Now having said this, yes, to me, Fractal is the best digital solution, currently, for a lot reasons. However, QC is a really good device and works well. Kemper is solid as well. Even the Helix can get you there. Their profiling capabilities are just not there yet - but just as I said "yet" there is probably some engineering wizard working on it.

IF it happens, the question is "when?" Has IK solved it? Don't know. We have to try it to find out, right?

I don't know much, yet, about IK's 'new solution' but I am sure it will come across our studio desk once it hits.

Lastly, Joe Satriani recorded a bunch of recent tracks using IK models as well as a session Alex Lifeson just did - so there is that....Alex even toured using IK models on a laptop on top of his rig.
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Interesting about Lifeson dabbling in IK - would love to have a "Lifeson Pack" in Amplitube.
 
GlennO said:
IMHO the future of digital amps is to get rid of the ball and chain of "how does it compare to a tube amp?". The goal should be to sound pleasing, not to sound like some other technology.
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Unfortunately that is not really going to happen because most people are human and they will compare. Many, many guitar professionals and even those who are hobby players are going to keep at the comparison - look how much effort is put in to "how do I get amp in the room sound" or "will an FRFR sound like a cab?" And on and on .....

I think Boss has always taken the approach you stated - which also is cool to me. They just make "their" models and that is that.

I personally don't care if modeling ever "gets there". But as I started this ramble - humans...lol
 
sprint said:
Interesting about Lifeson dabbling in IK - would love to have a "Lifeson Pack" in Amplitube.
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He used the flangers and chorus' a lot - what a surprise. My old amp Tech "Larry" designed the loft rack mount for Alex and he used on the PM waves tour. Then Alex changed gear lol.

Larry had it in his shop before he passed away. The device was insane....all those Lifeson swirly flangy chorus sounds. When Larry passed away - I always wondered what happened to it. IT was a piece of serious gear. Lifeson has since sold off a lot of his gear so I know it didn't go there and Larry had no family.

As an aside, I had a few Marshalls I was using at the time, a JVM and a a few JCM 2000's. Larry did the original mod layout for Kerry King amp - the KT88 JCM 800. I don't know if he actually did Kerry amp although.

I asked Larry if he could mod one of the JVMs with it and he was like "no."

Then one day he called me and said your amp is ready .....and I was like ready? He said with the KT88 mod. lol....Cool guy. He would just answer the phone "Service". ha ha .
 
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