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I wish Fractal Allows Me to Overwrite All Factory IRs

getlostinsound

Inspired
I think having factory cabs stay in place is appropriate.

I’m picturing the secondhand market that doesn’t frequent the forums. Consider how often the question “Why do all my presets sound like crap?” gets asked, and someone responds “Try turning global cab modeling on”.

Right now you can borrow, rent, or buy a used Axe FX III, and even if all of the factory presets have been deleted and you never connect it to a computer, you have all the tools you need in the box to make great tones. But if the factory cabs have all been deleted, you only have a partially functioning unit.

I know most of us who frequent this forum, upon getting new gear, would update firmware and download the drivers and content before jumping down the rabbit hole, but for many, an obstacle like this could cause them to give up and move on to some other “user friendly” gear.

I do, however, love the idea of being able to load cabs and presets from a flash drive in future Axe FX models.
 

paulasbell

Inspired
unless somehow factory IRs take up less space than any other IR, which is doubtful.
I'm quite sure this issue came up several times in threads regarding the AxeFx2. My recollection was that Cliff and others pointed out that that WAS in fact the case. Can anyone smarter than me confirm or deny that?
 

unix-guy

Legend!
I'm quite sure this issue came up several times in threads regarding the AxeFx2. My recollection was that Cliff and others pointed out that that WAS in fact the case. Can anyone smarter than me confirm or deny that?
I think what you might be referring to was people wanting to gain additional memory to allow the firmware to be bigger. That is a different thing altogether...

The IRs don't take much space whether they are factory or not.

In fact, you may remember that there used to be additional factory IRs included in the Axe Fx II firmware (that could be loaded in User slots) for those users with devices created before the XL was created. They're just IRs.
 

Mark Al

Inspired
Probably not a joke. Been wished for many times, mostly from a misunderstanding that you don’t have to load IRs to try them.
Nope, I know how auditioning IR works with Axe III Edit. In this case, I do intend/want to load/store more than 2048 IRs on board after auditioning even more than that.

To be fair, 128 cabs, 4 mics and 4 mic positions would be 2048 IR slots. Still a lot of cabs. Too many to fit in my living room.
Exactly this! I have tons of IRs from OH, Celestion and Redwirez. 2024 is a fraction of all unique combinations of (cabs, mics, positions) out of them.

I’ve finally gotten to the point where I just use one IR for everything. Makes life much simpler.
You are making huge comprise here I think, and likely grossly trading off convenience for the vast tonal possibility provided by the awesome Axe III ;-)

Yeah I basically use just a few - 10 for the most, but I DO like options and try different ones just for the hell of it
As I mentioned in another thread, trying them out randomly is NOT fun, super counter productive... so I can totally relate to it. However, that's NOT what I am doing. The reason I want to load so many IRs on board is that I can have a consistent/easy approach to find the right (cab, mic, position) combination, e.g. I'd choose a cab first, then play with mic and positions. Despite the sheer amount of IRs, finding the right one in this fashion is methodical, consistent and replicable, hence MUCH easier than auditioning random IRs.

And this makes having a large collection of them super navigable, and makes sense.


If 2048 user slots are not enough, then 4096 won't be enough either.
Perhaps, that's true. Perhaps, we ought to think bigger :) I have given a similar feedback in another thread I started about the confusing factory IRs. Here it is again, how about:
1. Fractal design a "standard" interface, that allows user to choose (cab, mic, position) combinations
2. Work with a few major IR venders to organize their IRs in such format, so that when it's imported, it fits this interface.
3. Wola! An excellent IR selection interface, that could easily accommodate over 10,000 IRs yet still easy for user to navigate around!

Just put all your IRs in one folder on your computer and use axe manage cabs to audition them.

I may be wrong, but I'm going to assume you don't have 2048 presets each with a unique cab block on them. If that's the case, the only cab IRs that actually need to be on the unit are the ones present in the presets you use.
I think you miss the point here, I switch up IRs for my presets all the time, and I remember all the IRs that works or didn't work, or how they work for different purposes. How? e.g. certain cab works really well in OH1F-00, the same cab works better with OH2-05 for another purpose, then another cab works excellently with 421-00, etc, these names are all standard conventions for OH IRs. Then for my Redwirez collections, I have similar methodologies with slightly different naming conventions.

Lastly, what I did last night is. I wrote a bash script that use regex to select a faction of all my IRs:
1. For OH IRs, I used '.(57|58|70|160|421|OH1|OH1F|OH2|OH2F|SP1|SP2|CUT|BOLD)-(00|FRED).wav.', e.g. a few typical mic (combination), all at center 00 positions (note OH has positions from 00 to 10).
2. For RedWirez, I used '.(SM57-(Cap-(3)|CapOffAxis-(4)|CapEdge-(4)|CapEdgeOffAxis-(5)|Cone-(5)|ConeEdge-(5))|421-(Cap-(3)|CapOffAxis-(4)|CapEdge-(4)|CapEdgeOffAxis-(5)|Cone-(5)|ConeEdge-(5))|160-(Cap-(5)|CapOffAxis-(6)|CapEdge-(5)|CapEdgeOffAxis-(6)|Cone-(5)|ConeEdge-(6)))in', and that's 3 mics each in 6 positions with fixed distance. I'd love to include 3 to 4 different distances, but no more space :)

These IRs regex-selected from above completely fills up both User banks.
 

Mark Al

Inspired
By the way, a small feature request from @FractalAudio , right now when picking IRs, we type in a string and hit enter to search. It would be MUCH better if the result could automatically filter while user type. Trust me, it makes a big difference, and would make IR search/selection a lot faster. (A bonus point, allow regex searching, ha :))

This should be quite simple to implement, there are standard algorithm for this, hint patricia trie ;-)
 

Dave Merrill

Experienced
By the way, a small feature request from @FractalAudio , right now when picking IRs, we type in a string and hit enter to search. It would be MUCH better if the result could automatically filter while user type. Trust me, it makes a big difference, and would make IR search/selection a lot faster. (A bonus point, allow regex searching, ha :))

This should be quite simple to implement, there are standard algorithm for this, hint patricia trie ;-)
Agree, and I also wish filtering on the unit was more flexible. For example, York Audio uses 212, not 2x12, so the on-unit fltering doesn't work at all. You also can't look for 57, or mix, or OH, etc.
 

RoshRoslin

Experienced
I think you miss the point here, I switch up IRs for my presets all the time, and I remember all the IRs that works or didn't work, or how they work for different purposes. How? e.g. certain cab works really well in OH1F-00, the same cab works better with OH2-05 for another purpose, then another cab works excellently with 421-00, etc, these names are all standard conventions for OH IRs. Then for my Redwirez collections, I have similar methodologies with slightly different naming conventions.

Lastly, what I did last night is. I wrote a bash script that use regex to select a faction of all my IRs:
1. For OH IRs, I used '.(57|58|70|160|421|OH1|OH1F|OH2|OH2F|SP1|SP2|CUT|BOLD)-(00|FRED).wav.', e.g. a few typical mic (combination), all at center 00 positions (note OH has positions from 00 to 10).
2. For RedWirez, I used '.(SM57-(Cap-(3)|CapOffAxis-(4)|CapEdge-(4)|CapEdgeOffAxis-(5)|Cone-(5)|ConeEdge-(5))|421-(Cap-(3)|CapOffAxis-(4)|CapEdge-(4)|CapEdgeOffAxis-(5)|Cone-(5)|ConeEdge-(5))|160-(Cap-(5)|CapOffAxis-(6)|CapEdge-(5)|CapEdgeOffAxis-(6)|Cone-(5)|ConeEdge-(6)))in', and that's 3 mics each in 6 positions with fixed distance. I'd love to include 3 to 4 different distances, but no more space :)

These IRs regex-selected from above completely fills up both User banks.
Understood. As an aside instead of coming up with a Regex to filter the naming conventions, couldn't you just rename the IRs instead? You wouldn't even need to /Regex/ig anything. But I digress.

This doesn't address the initial suggestion. It sounds like you have the same presets but are swapping the IRs to get a different tone. Swapping and auditioning the IRs from a folder would still work. How often are you "sticking" to a tone? At some point, a preset and sound should be saved and considered "finished", but thats just a mere suggestion, YMMV console.log("have fun").

For clarity when I say 2048 presets, I am also talking about the actual amp block, settings, blocks within the presets etc. This is only for the presets alone, assuming you use one scene. If you use all 8 scenes, then you would have 2048 presets * 8 completely unique scenes. If you need that many IRs pre-loaded and ready to go... unfortunately not only are you limited by space, but I would venture to guess, by time as well. Thats a lot of presets.
 
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I just think the current lack of standardization in the IR naming scheme, coupled with having to have what can be a hundred or more IRs of the same cab in various configurations just helps to create IR soup. If I can’t have a customizable IR generator in the axefxIII (much like ML Labs Mikko) I’d at least appreciate maybe a folder file system that will neatly file different cabs as I see fit. This way when I go to select a cab, I’m looking at 20 file folders, not hundreds of IRs at once with no standardized naming scheme.
 

Mark Al

Inspired
Understood. As an aside instead of coming up with a Regex to filter the naming conventions, couldn't you just rename the IRs instead? You wouldn't even need to /Regex/ig anything. But I digress.

This doesn't address the initial suggestion. It sounds like you have the same presets but are swapping the IRs to get a different tone. Swapping and auditioning the IRs from a folder would still work. How often are you "sticking" to a tone? At some point, a preset and sound should be saved and considered "finished", but thats just a mere suggestion, YMMV console.log("have fun").

For clarity when I say 2048 presets, I am also talking about the actual amp block, settings, blocks within the presets etc. This is only for the presets alone, assuming you use one scene. If you use all 8 scenes, then you would have 2048 presets * 8 completely unique scenes. If you need that many IRs pre-loaded and ready to go... unfortunately not only are you limited by space, but I would venture to guess, by time as well. Thats a lot of presets.
If you just look at the number, it looks daunting or unrealistic. However, that's not how it's going to work, e.g. I don't intend to have preset/scene per each unique combination, that'd be silly :)

Imagine, one day, I'd be like, OK, I want to try Plexi SL with a Baseweaver cab with V30 in it, then I go ahead pick that cab, and play with different mic and positions. You see, having these IR options readily available is powerful, it doesn't necessarily means I am going to full utilize each one of them all the time.

I just think the current lack of standardization in the IR naming scheme, coupled with having to have what can be a hundred or more IRs of the same cab in various configurations just helps to create IR soup. If I can’t have a customizable IR generator in the axefxIII (much like ML Labs Mikko) I’d at least appreciate maybe a folder file system that will neatly file different cabs as I see fit. This way when I go to select a cab, I’m looking at 20 file folders, not hundreds of IRs at once with no standardized naming scheme.
Yep! We need better IR management. Helix is already doing much better in this regard, ML Mikko's PoC is really slick, those are steps towards the right direction, IMHO.
 
If you just look at the number, it looks daunting or unrealistic. However, that's not how it's going to work, e.g. I don't intend to have preset/scene per each unique combination, that'd be silly :)

Imagine, one day, I'd be like, OK, I want to try Plexi SL with a Baseweaver cab with V30 in it, then I go ahead pick that cab, and play with different mic and positions. You see, having these IR options readily available is powerful, it doesn't necessarily means I am going to full utilize each one of them all the time.


Yep! We need better IR management. Helix is already doing much better in this regard, ML Mikko's PoC is really slick, those are steps towards the right direction, IMHO.
I see new market potential for fractal here. I’d pay money for a cab block that acts as a customized IR creator. Select the cabs, mics, rooms, pres, speakers and whatever else and move stuff around in real time until you create your own perfect to you IR.
 

pharmd07

Inspired
You are making huge comprise here I think, and likely grossly trading off convenience for the vast tonal possibility provided by the awesome Axe III ;-)
I don’t see it as a compromise whatsoever. Sure, I could spend tons of time picking IRs, but I’d rather spend that time practicing guitar. I’ve spent a lot of time and money on a ton of IR packs, and I finally decided York Audio’s Blackjack pack did it for me. There’s a particular IR in that pack that I like very much and it works well with all the amps I use. I don’t buy IR packs anymore. I spend that money now on lessons. Instead of spending time choosing IRs, I use that time for practicing.

No one is obligated to use every single bell and whistle in the Axe 3. However, there really is a such thing as “paralysis of indecision” due to having too many options.
 

Mark Al

Inspired
I don’t see it as a compromise whatsoever. Sure, I could spend tons of time picking IRs, but I’d rather spend that time practicing guitar. I’ve spent a lot of time and money on a ton of IR packs, and I finally decided York Audio’s Blackjack pack did it for me. There’s a particular IR in that pack that I like very much and it works well with all the amps I use. I don’t buy IR packs anymore. I spend that money now on lessons. Instead of spending time choosing IRs, I use that time for practicing.

No one is obligated to use every single bell and whistle in the Axe 3. However, there really is a such thing as “paralysis of indecision” due to having too many options.
I know exactly what you mean and where you come from, as weird as it may sound, I am trying to achieve the same thing! I do NOT want to waste time auditioning IR randomly. I want to find what I need methodically.

Unfortunately, there is “paralysis of indecision” due to super ill-organized IR mess... Only when the IRs are organized in user-friendly, easily-selected (cab/speaker, mic, position) combinations, the amount of options finally is no longer a blocker, but becomes powerful and easily-navigable tools to fuel creativity.

Some people argue they only need a few IRs or a few patches, tones, sounds etc. For me, I like to switch things up from time to time, I want to do so effectively/efficiently, cause new tones DOES inspire creativity. I am sure y'all have those moments/experience when you discover a new tone either via a new amp or a new IR, that inspires you to play for hours, and even create some small piece of music. Well you should record those ideas down, and later it becomes part of your new song.

This is one major attraction of playing modelers at home. All these options are not meant to cause “paralysis of indecision” for us, but to fuel creativity, the bottom line is we need better user-interface to harness these powerful options.
 

lqdsnddist

Axe-Master
Back in the day when I used to help engineer, we used to love guys who would come into the studio and spend hours, if not days or weeks, trying out every mic in the locker, different cabs, endlessly having us move them around et al., all while paying by the hour.

Eventually you'd have to tell them "look, you guys came in with with $10k to spend on this album and you've already used about half that in studio time and we still haven't done any actual tracking yet...."

Now with IR's its like the same trap..... Wife and kids are out of the house for a bit and you think "great, some time I can enjoy playing my guitar finally!"...... Then 3 hours later they come back and its "Hi honey, did you enjoy your time alone ? Get any music done ?" and its "Well no..... I played a 5 second take into the looper and then sat here and listed to that same 5 second loop through 1,200 different IR's...."

Time well spend, right ?
 

pharmd07

Inspired
Back in the day when I used to help engineer, we used to love guys who would come into the studio and spend hours, if not days or weeks, trying out every mic in the locker, different cabs, endlessly having us move them around et al., all while paying by the hour.

Eventually you'd have to tell them "look, you guys came in with with $10k to spend on this album and you've already used about half that in studio time and we still haven't done any actual tracking yet...."

Now with IR's its like the same trap..... Wife and kids are out of the house for a bit and you think "great, some time I can enjoy playing my guitar finally!"...... Then 3 hours later they come back and its "Hi honey, did you enjoy your time alone ? Get any music done ?" and its "Well no..... I played a 5 second take into the looper and then sat here and listed to that same 5 second loop through 1,200 different IR's...."

Time well spend, right ?
This has happened to me SO many times. I’d hate to know how many hours I’ve wasted over the years with trying out IRs. And money. If I spent that time practicing and learning new songs, I would be much better off today.
 

Mark Al

Inspired
Back in the day when I used to help engineer, we used to love guys who would come into the studio and spend hours, if not days or weeks, trying out every mic in the locker, different cabs, endlessly having us move them around et al., all while paying by the hour.

Eventually you'd have to tell them "look, you guys came in with with $10k to spend on this album and you've already used about half that in studio time and we still haven't done any actual tracking yet...."

Now with IR's its like the same trap..... Wife and kids are out of the house for a bit and you think "great, some time I can enjoy playing my guitar finally!"...... Then 3 hours later they come back and its "Hi honey, did you enjoy your time alone ? Get any music done ?" and its "Well no..... I played a 5 second take into the looper and then sat here and listed to that same 5 second loop through 1,200 different IR's...."

Time well spend, right ?
I don't work like that, and the whole point of this thread, basically arguing for a better IR navigable interface, is trying to avoid time wasted like that :) It depends on situations, there are times one does want/need to find inspirations through tone searching, and when that time comes, I want an interface to do so as effective and efficiently as possible. Depends on the situation and goal at the moment, the tonal requirement may be different, if you have a vision of that in mind, it's not a random time wasting searching...

The same thing applies to effect sometimes, experiment with new effects could be fun and and time consuming, however, if you have something in mind or if you have a sense of purpose, you will likely find something that inspires you to create and express those ideas. There are many examples of successful guitarists who does that. It needs NOT to be a random non-purposeful waste of time, right? I have nothing to desire more at this point in term of effects from AXE III, which are generally pretty awesome.

IRs management, on the other hand, it's hard to navigate around, for me right now. Despite the sheer amount of IRs I have, I always have a rough idea what to look for, e.g. Redwires or OH are my main stables, I know what cab, mic I need to start with, but there is no way for me do that quickly or efficiently, e.g. I have to use cab manager to load the IRs, audition and then import and save, and they end up super ill-organized in the unit... There needs to be a better way, let's re-think the whole IR management, e.g. some innovation can be done here :)
 
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Mark Al

Inspired
Most IRs are useless crap, you don’t need to save every IR you encounter.
Yes and no. Look at Helix's stock cabs? do they all sounds good in every patch, absolutely not, they are not meant to be. They are there to recreate the studio experience of different (cab, mic, distance) combinations, e.g. one can EASILY find good sound with some common sense guitar cab mic experience. I am not saying Helix stack cabs are perfect for that purpose, but I found it VERY effective in finding the right cab/tone, again because it's so easily navigable, and maps to real studio mic-ing experience pretty well.

I have a feeling that even though Fractal is no doubt the current market leader on the amp modeling department (and its cab modeling is great as well), it is neglecting the IR management/interface. I think we can do a lot better that the current status. And I believe it will be more than well worth it.

Start from small wins, as I suggested above, show the filtered IRs while users type would help a lot, and easily implementable.
 

bdrepko

Fractal Fanatic
I have a feeling that even though Fractal is no doubt the current market leader on the amp modeling department (and its cab modeling is great as well), it is neglecting the IR management/interface. I think we can do a lot better that the current status. And I believe it will be more than well worth it.
This is true. But my preference right now is the enhancement of the pitch shift block over IR maintenance. This is subject to change in the future.
 

GreatGreen

Power User
If you used every single one of the Axe III's 512 patches, and each one of them used a Cab block, and each of those Cab blocks used all 4 possible IR slots, and every single cab slot used a User cab, and you didn't re-use ONE SINGLE CAB in all 512 patches, NOR did you combine any IRs you liked into a single IR like you can easily do, the 2048 user cabs would still be enough slots to support that.

Also, you can EASILY try as many cabs as you want with the software, and the cab slots are infinitely re-writable.

With respect, this entire thread is stupid and the OP has no idea what he's talking about.
 
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