Rock Chalk
Fractal Fanatic
So, I wonder what the latency total is for an Axe III through a pair of Adam A7Xs, or CLRs? Anybody know? Just curious.
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I think this info (latency) should be specified on every gear description since it is a measurable thing.So, I wonder what the latency total is for an Axe III through a pair of Adam A7Xs, or CLRs? Anybody know? Just curious.
I think a hell of a lot more gear should come with digital I/O too in order to reduce it. This day and age any digital guitar anything should have it.I think this info (latency) should be specified on every gear description since it is a measurable thing.
There is no EQ correction or anything ahead of the power amp? And aren't they 2-way speakers, presumably with a DSP crossover?That's easy.
Redsound ELIS 8 or MF10. All analog, fantastic sound ;-)
Analog crossover.There is no EQ correction or anything ahead of the power amp? And aren't they 2-way speakers, presumably with a DSP crossover?
Distance from the speaker is a different thing. Yes, you can measure it the same way. And, yes, at least in an academic context being farther away from the speaker means that sound takes longer to hit your ears.Because of this thread as a test, at my last gig on Friday with my FM9 and G50 wireless I walked and approximated distances from my speaker. I’m using an older QSC I’m not sure if it has any processing. There’s no little screen on it or anything.
10’ away no discernible latency.
20’ away a hair but nothing obvious. More feel than audible.
30’ away definitely an audible amount of latency but the other sounds leaving the stage were getting to my ears at the same time too so it didn’t screw me up or anything. At 50’ away, I could still play with no problem and that’s the longest guitar cable I’ve ever seen.
I guess everyone’s mileage varies on this but anyone who intends on playing even medium sized rooms and wants to walk away from their speakers will have to find a way to manage this. Can’t send sound at light speed.
I’d imagine if you’re fixated on your speakers, this may be the case. I think if you close your eyes, 10ms is 10ms no matter if distance or processing is causing the audio latency.Distance from the speaker is a different thing. Yes, you can measure it the same way. And, yes, at least in an academic context being farther away from the speaker means that sound takes longer to hit your ears.
But...you can see the speaker. You can also hear where it is in the room. You're very used to hearing sounds coming from things in rooms...you've done it ~16 hours a day every day for your whole life.
Processing latency, OTOH, isn't a natural thing, and you have a lot less experience with it, even if you "live in the studio"....because you're also hearing the distance to the speaker on top of processing latency.
I really don't think they're comparable things. Sadly, IME, you kind of just have to try things and see what works. Very few companies actually publish round trip latency numbers.
FWIW, the only time I've actually experienced it was when I was experimenting with using a reverb pedal in the loop of my FM3. I've used that reverb pedal before in other setups, and it was fine. But, the whole thing went from an overall latency of "totally fine" to "this is ridiculous; I can't play like this"...and I never really expected that.
Yep. This in part is what attracted to me to the MF-10's - they just do flat amplification and any and all signal processing stays with the AxeFx.Analog crossover.
For me there's two categories, one being the latency that's audible and strongly felt as the sound from my speaker is clearly arriving separately from the accoustic sound of my guitar (playing at home at low volume) - I can't play like that. But, the other category is far more subtle, and is the dofference between a patch feeling lifeless vs lively - I can experience this with plugins where I can easily adjust latency - playing at 20ms, it feels dead / no joy to play, but the latency is still not enough to hear any late arriving sound from the speaker compared to what's coming from my guitar accoustically. The same plugin @ 10ms or less feels lively and fluid. I hated all my plugins till I upgraded my computer - suddenly, on the new computer, with latency down to 8-10ms vs twice that on my old system, plugins became fun to use.FWIW, the only time I've actually experienced it was when I was experimenting with using a reverb pedal in the loop of my FM3. I've used that reverb pedal before in other setups, and it was fine. But, the whole thing went from an overall latency of "totally fine" to "this is ridiculous
Agreed about the last thing, though I don't think there's actually much of an impact to latency from conversion outside of computers. That latency comes from the necessity to have a relatively large buffer to account for processing delays in a general purpose computer. I don't think that dedicated DSP has the same problems....if nothing else, the processing time should be known ahead of time, so the buffer size should be fixed and could be a lot smaller.I’d imagine if you’re fixated on your speakers, this may be the case. I think if you close your eyes, 10ms is 10ms no matter if distance or processing is causing the audio latency.
I really think as digital gear in general gets more and more prevalent, digital I/O really needs to become more available in most any digital audio gear. There’s no reason you should have to guitar cable 5 pedals together hitting 5 sets of ADDA conversion and adding all that latency as well as signal degradation.
For me there's two categories, one being the latency that's audible and strongly felt as the sound from my speaker is clearly arriving separately from the accoustic sound of my guitar (playing at home at low volume) - I can't play like that. But, the other category is far more subtle, and is the dofference between a patch feeling lifeless vs lively - I can experience this with plugins where I can easily adjust latency - playing at 20ms, it feels dead / no joy to play, but the latency is still not enough to hear any late arriving sound from the speaker compared to what's coming from my guitar accoustically. The same plugin @ 10ms or less feels lively and fluid. I hated all my plugins till I upgraded my computer - suddenly, on the new computer, with latency down to 8-10ms vs twice that on my old system, plugins became fun to use.
How is this tested? Can you outline the signal chain? If a monitor has no DSP, the recorded latency has to be coming from somewhere else.Today I measured the cheap Alto tx310, even this has latency (I thought it would not have since apparently it does not have dsp)
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I bring out a little QSC and throw it in the backline. There is a VERY small range in volume from being barely audible to dominating and too loud (and I’m the only guitar player in the band). You should definitely be able to keep up with a 30w amp (or any amp) on stage. Maybe he needed to turn down a little?The Laney LFR1-12 was mentioned in this thread. When researching I also re-discovered the Friedman ASC-10. Friedman seems to agree with MF on the 10" speaker decision. This after I just played yet another show where the singer's 30W tube amp dominated the whole stage, while I was relying on my FM9 through the house monitor and could only hear myself when I didn't move away from one spot.
I like the slightly lower weight of the Friedman.
Anywhoo, is someone here who had compared those two? Thanks!
You can see my method on the first post.How is this tested? Can you outline the signal chain? If a monitor has no DSP, the recorded latency has to be coming from somewhere else.
Thank you. How far is the mic from the physical speaker? Remember every inch is approx 1ms. If the speaker is recessed behind the cover even just 2”, you are giving the direct signal a 2ms head start.You can see my method on the first post.