I Just ate a piece of " Humble Pie"

G

Glen Sorrentino

Inspired
Ok, I am going to post this despite feeling and looking like an idiot in the hopes that it will inspire others to keep working to find their sound.

Tonight i decided to look at the back of my Focal 6be monitors and switch both to the -10db input level instead of the +4 db. With my Ultra i had the +4 input by default. This actually raised the output level substantially instead of the opposite! Fortunately this is not the only thing that changed! Suddenly all my own presets sounded like total garbage and all the stock factory presets sounded absolutely glorious!

This prompted me to go back through my high gain presets and rework the gain structure and EQs. The result was nothing short of AMAZING! I swear i almost cried at the improvement in detail. The harmonics, sustain and reverb tails floored me. I really thought i had found some great sounds with quite a few improvements from my ultra before this discovery. I went back and plugged my Ultra in with the -10db input only to find that it did not happen for me. I am not sure why this is. Perhaps someone would care to postulate.

The bottom line is even my wife hears a huge difference. Night and Day folks! I realize setting levels is basic to signal processing but can be easily overlooked. This is where i took a big peace of "Humble Pie". I hope somebody can gain from this.

PS: There is more to this here than the Fletcher-Munson curve
 
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Sadly, this is why many of us long term posters have not been 'kind' to many folks who post (paraphrase) 'What's the big deal? Sounds like crap to me!' Usually something is not right there, but it's hard to troubleshoot on a chat board.

Everything is in the signal chain...there's always a 'oh my good sin, that's awesome' moment when the missing piece is found.

Dude, totally happy that you got it! Get outa here and PLAY!

Ron
 
OK, I'm always willing to look stupid. +4 dBu is a higher nominal level than -10 dBV, which is primarily associated with consumer, as opposed to pro, gear. Changing the setting from +4 dBu to -10 dBV should increase the volume, as you are adjusting the attenuators for a lower level input signal. So far, so good. But the AxeFx II outputs are spec'd at +20 dBu, and should have plenty of level to drive the +4 inputs. Why then, do you think it sounds better set to -10 other than the increase in volume? The +4 dBu setting would be the obvious choice, so what is really going on here?
 
Discovering by accident or not. You discovered it.
And it made your day !!

Cool story with a excellent, ending!!!
 
In Response to LMO:

Sadly, I really do not know other than the obvious change in volume why there is a huge sound improvement on these monitors. I had the +4 db inputs selected initially for use with pro gear. I have not touched any of the output settings in the Axe. The detail is now coming right out of the walls! It is like the sounds took a great leap. This is no small difference. I wish i had seen this several weeks ago. A lot of monitors give you this choice and you would think that volume would be the only change but it is not. The quality of the sounds is substantially different and improved.

If anyone else with different or same monitors cares to check this out, i would be appreciative to know the outcome. Better yet, If someone could give us all a rational explanation, it might help a lot of FRFR users.
 
Whatever works I guess. I've had my Tannoy Precision 8D's at +4db since I had my Ultra. Sounded fine with the Ultra and with the Axe2. I don't know enough about the science of sound etc. to have any idea why setting your monitors at -10 would sound any better. Seems strange to me, but if you like it, that's what matters.
 
Thats why it pays to be a tweaker (Or Tinkerer) Some of the best recipes were found by accident or exprimentation. Chocolate bacon bars bro!!
 
I have the focal cms 50s when I get back home in a few weeks I'll try this out and see if it makes a difference on my axe II.
 
The only difference between the +4 and -10 settings is level. Other than that, it's the same signal chain, same output. You should be able to achieve the same effect at the +4 setting by raising the output level knob on your Axe.

Maybe there's something sweet happening when the Focals are overdriven.
 
GuitarDojo said:
Thats why it pays to be a tweaker (Or Tinkerer) Some of the best recipes were found by accident or exprimentation. Chocolate bacon bars bro!!
Click to expand...

Yesss. Those are certainly near the top of the list of best experiment results. Good lord. Chocolate bacon.

Sorry for the bump. Had to respond as these are my favorite guilty pleasure food.
 
dont know, but, like switching off the full range on my ev live x 112 speakers, went from absolute wet blanket crap to ahhhhhhhhhhh. which was totally opposite of the ultra. Often when I get a new piece of gear that makes most of the sound (preamp processor), I look for the "where the "f" is the magic button that makes everything sound 1000x better" switch.
 
Rex said:
The only difference between the +4 and -10 settings is level. Other than that, it's the same signal chain, same output.
Click to expand...
Eh... It's almost the same thing... -10dBV is relative to 1V, and +4dBu is relative to a 600Ω load dissipating 1mW (which works out to ~0.775V). The key difference here is that the impedance is specified in dBu, but not in dBV. This may or may not make an audible difference, depending on the details of the circuits involved. An interesting thing to note is that due to the different reference voltages, the level difference between -10dBV and +4dBu is ~11.8dB, not 14dB.
 
Regardless of how the specifications are derived, it's still just a level difference. When you switch the monitor from +4dBu to -10 dBV, all you're changing is the level. The load impedence stays the same.
 
Rex said:
Regardless of how the specifications are derived, it's still just a level difference. When you switch the monitor from +4dBu to -10 dBV, all you're changing is the level. The load impedence stays the same.
Click to expand...
... Unless the monitors achieve that level change by changing the load at the input jack, rather than adjusting the gain later on. I'm not saying that is the case, just that it could be. And even if that is what they did, I don't know enough about this stuff to say what difference it'd make. I do know enough, though, to say that it might make a difference.

It's kinda like connecting a headphone jack into a low-impedance input -- the actual voltage levels are usually close enough, but the low load might cause distortion in the headphone circuit's output stage if it can't handle the lack-of-load.

And again, I'm not saying that this is​ what's going on, just that the possibility exists.
 
You're right, it could be done that way. But in this case, the monitor has a fixed input impedence of 10,000 ohms, which is pretty standard for line-level inputs.
 
Rex said:
You're right, it could be done that way. But in this case, the monitor has a fixed input impedence of 10,000 ohms, which is pretty standard for line-level inputs.
Click to expand...
Ah! New information (new to me, anyway)! So yes, you're right, it'll just be a level difference.
 
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