Huge difference between FR/FR and PA

M

Moshpet

Member
Hey,

i have the problem that between my FRFR (Matrix Q12A) at home and our PA system for gigs at the weekend is a huge different what makes it really difficult to build sounds at home.
Every sound get much more distorted and crunchier. If it is a nice rock'n'roll tone with the FRFR, it turns into heavy metal at the pa.
Is there something i'm missing?
Thanks for the help.
 
Does it perhaps get fizzier? More top end will be audible at high volume, so perhaps hearing that gives it an extra bite?
 
I would say yes, there is a litte more fizz but last weekend i tried to turn the volume on the PA down and it sounds quite exactly same as if was loud.
When im home today, i will crank up my frfr and have a listen to that. Forgive me neighbours.
 
Get an SPL meter on your phone to check it is a similar volume. But it’s pretty normal to have to tweak it a little to adjust from the bedroom to a big noisy space. I have input trim on a foot pedal to adjust it live.
 
There’s always going to be some tonal differences from PA to PA/cabinet to cabinet, regardless of how flat they’re claiming to be. I’ve got one of those small B-52 portable PA’s with the sub and 10” satellite speakers, I know that no matter what volume I set on that PA and dial in tones with, going to another PA is going to sound different.
 
That shouldn't be. The Q12As are flat enough to translate well.
Is the tweeter alright? Play recorded music on them and listen? It should sound right in the mids and highs, otherwise the tweeter is gone.
 
Fatjac said:
Could it be over or under signal strength? I'm thinking -10db/ +4db. PA channel gain too high/ too low?
Click to expand...

Axe is on +4db. The gain on the digital mixer (Behringer X32) is set the the signal is at - 6db.

RevDrucifer said:
There’s always going to be some tonal differences from PA to PA/cabinet to cabinet, regardless of how flat they’re claiming to be. I’ve got one of those small B-52 portable PA’s with the sub and 10” satellite speakers, I know that no matter what volume I set on that PA and dial in tones with, going to another PA is going to sound different.
Click to expand...

Thats ok for me, but the difference is huge at the moment.

dpeterson said:
Make use of the hi and low cuts, I bring my hi cut down to 6k sometimes, use your ear, hard to hear at home low volumes but makes a difference up loud.
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Most time i have a high cut at 8k - 10k and a low cut from 80 - 100hz in the Cab Block. Is there a better place?

666was999 said:
That shouldn't be. The Q12As are flat enough to translate well.
Is the tweeter alright? Play recorded music on them and listen? It should sound right in the mids and highs, otherwise the tweeter is gone.
Click to expand...

Will try in the evening.
 
Do you go through a mixer to the PA? Who operates that mixer? If the FRFR system you trust sounds good and the PA doesn’t, I would recommend trying to deal with it at the PA.

PS: This type of problem can be even worse with a tube amp because you also have the variables of amplifier performance changing from day to day, microphone positions, and more.
 
Admin M@ said:
Do you go through a mixer to the PA? Who operates that mixer? If the FRFR system you trust sounds good and the PA doesn’t, I would recommend trying to deal with it at the PA.

PS: This type of problem can be even worse with a tube amp because you also have the variables of amplifier performance changing from day to day, microphone positions, and more.
Click to expand...

Not getting me wrong, i love the Axe. Just trying to get to work better and better with it and make my life easier.

FractalAudio said:
Probably distorting the mixer. Most sound guys aren't smart enough to realize that the DI signal is line level, not mic level.
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Will check this at the next gig on thursday. Don't want to talk about our soundguy :sweatsmile:.
 
personally, i would dial it in so it sounds good on your matrix and then use the global eq for the other set of outs and cut off some top end (remove a little at 4k too). as cliff said, make sure the soundman knows he's getting line level. if you use xlr>trs he won't be able to plug you into a mic input (!) and will have to connect you to line inputs. if not, set the out level to -10db and keep the volume down a bit. let him have a listen to your onstage sound, so he can hear what he's aiming for and he should be able to use the eq on the desk to get it close.
 
oh and it goes without saying, don't bridge off your cab into the pa and don't use left into cab and right into pa. use two different sets of outputs on the axe.
 
FractalAudio said:
Probably distorting the mixer. Most sound guys aren't smart enough to realize that the DI signal is line level, not mic level.
Click to expand...

I doubt it, my xr18 mixer with gain set at -6dB has plenty of headroom for the axe outputs set at +4dB, even with the out1 knob maxed out.

EDIT: ok I may have misread what the OP wrote, he talked about the signal being at -6dB and not the gain setting. In this case you're probably right
 
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Moshpet said:
Axe is on +4db. The gain on the digital mixer (Behringer X32) is set the the signal is at - 6db.
Click to expand...

Moshpet,

Isn't there some discussion concerning these gain levels on digital boards? I'm actually keeping trim down toward -18dB. Just above -18dB you'll see the meter begin to hit yellow. While this should be fine I could swear I've read somewhere that keeping that trim down on these boards is the way to go. BTW, the sound from my board is pristine into some QSC's.

Here is a link with a partial description of what I'm talking about.
https://collaborateworship.com/how-to-set-gain/

There may have been some deeper technical stuff I read last year so dig around a little further as well

Yes, -6dB used to be where you could push to and have plenty of headroom left for recording and mastering. Some even went as far as -3dB. I just started to learn about the -18dB structure, but I think it has to do with some newer European standards too.
 
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