How to Simulate Analog Delays whose filter or tone stack applies to repeats additively?

M

Mark Al

Inspired
A great example of such analog delay would be the Asheville Music Tool’s ADG-1. When the tone control is turned higher, the repeats gets brighter and brighter as the filter is applied on them repeatedly, also when the tone is turned down the repeats gets successively darker melting into a dark cloud…

It’d be awesome to be able to achieve/support such sounds in Fractal’s analog delay models.
 
You could probably tie an LFO to the filter or EQ sweep to either turn down or up. Adjust the speed of the filter in the controllers menu.
 
That's how the delay's work currently. EQ is applied through each pass through the circuit just like the real thing. If you use higher slope or Q settings, the effect will be less noticeable as the change happens much faster further from the cutoff frequency.
 
Mark Al said:
A great example of such analog delay would be the Asheville Music Tool’s ADG-1. When the tone control is turned higher, the repeats gets brighter and brighter as the filter is applied on them repeatedly, also when the tone is turned down the repeats gets successively darker melting into a dark cloud…

It’d be awesome to be able to achieve/support such sounds in Fractal’s analog delay models.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure I understand your question. The Axe-FX Delay block EQ has both hi cut and low cut, so it's capable of doing that. Use a BBD type, but I don't see anything unusual about the ADG-1 tone control.
 
If you want a frequency band to increase as the repeats die away, you have to push that frequency band above the middle horizontal unity gain line in the EQ graph. Use very small boosts though, as it will quickly go into oscillation if you boost too much with higher feedback settings.

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mr_fender said:
That's how the delay's work currently. EQ is applied through each pass through the circuit just like the real thing. If you use higher slope or Q settings, the effect will be less noticeable as the change happens much faster further from the cutoff frequency.
Click to expand...
Hum... not really. I can only adjust the EQ to control how ALL the repeats sound, e.g. as the repeat continues, the repeat's tonality remains the same.

While on my ADG-1 SE for example, I can make the first repeats relatively warm while subsequent repeats get brighter and brighter easily (or darker and darker), while on AXE III when I turn up the EQ, all repeats just all get (too) bright (or dark)...
 
GlennO said:
I'm not sure I understand your question. The Axe-FX Delay block EQ has both hi cut and low cut, so it's capable of doing that. Use a BBD type, but I don't see anything unusual about the ADG-1 tone control.
Click to expand...
On the ADG-1 the tone control is a tile like filter around 605Hz, and it's applied additively to each repeats, which is not the case in Axe III's analog delays. And this type of additive EQ seems quite common on delay pedals, i.e. not just analog delays.

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You have to dial in gradual cuts or boots otherwise the change happens too quickly. The default slope settings for the Analog and BBD delays are very steep. Set them to 6 dB and move the frequency over and you'll hear it shift as the repeats cycle. You might have more luck using the two adjustable bands with low Q settings instead of the high and low cuts to get the changes you want.
 
Mark Al said:
it's applied additively to each repeats,
Click to expand...

Yes, that's how the Axe-FX works. I've never heard of a delay eq that doesn't work like that :). I think what you're hearing is an Axe-FX delay eq that isn't dialed in to the same cutoff and slope as the ADG-1.
 
The problem is that, I think, I need the FIRST repeat to sound like the following EQ shape, and then only AFTER that, applying a tilt EQ around 605Hz as @mr_fender suggested....
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FractalAudio said:
Put a filter in front of the delay block to shape the first echo tone. Then use the EQ in the delay block to shape the repeats. Put these blocks in parallel with the dry path so you don't distort the dry tone.
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Ah, thank you, that make sense. I will try that, e.g.
  • Put the high/low cut EQ block, shaped like above, before the delay.
  • Then use the delay EQ's two bands parametric to "fake/mimic" a tilt EQ.
  • And put the above two in parallel with the dry signal.
It would be awesome to add another tilt EQ inside the delay block itself, right? ;)

Thanks everyone, appreciate the help!
 
mr_fender said:
If you want a frequency band to increase as the repeats die away, you have to push that frequency band above the middle horizontal unity gain
Click to expand...
Actually, just make cuts elsewhere and increase the feedback.
 
mr_fender said:
Would be really cool to be able to move the location of the EQ in the delay block as well (pre vs post feedback tap). That would open up a lot of shaping possibilities.
Click to expand...
You have every option at your fingertips by using the delay block in parallel, and optionally using Send and Return blocks to experiment. I used to think those variants would be cool too until I built some on the Axe-Fx and in VSIG. Where it is in the Axe-Fx is the best and most useful. You can try it yourself and let me know if you don't agree.
 
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