How to improve my sound / artificial sound?

The Fender cabs are your best bet as far as cost goes. Everything else is pricey $$. But you do need something other than the Headrush. And keep in mind that whatever you replace it with is still FRFR so even though it will sound better, it’s still not amp in the room tone. Some people just run an amp into a guitar cab because FRFR doesn’t work for them. I’m kind of used to it now and I’m running an amp into a Celestion F12 cab which was a huge improvement over the Headrush 112 I was using. I’ll be buying a Fender cab myself soon. For variety and stereo and lighter carry. And as always I am amused because even though you described your whole situation and budget, people still recommend the big money options.
 
rzjd said:
For me, it brings back some amp feel adding more low end.
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OH MY GOD!!!! OOOOOHHHH MY GOD!!!!! IT SENDS SHIVERS DOWN MY SPINE! Holy cheese!!!! THAT is THE MOST underestimated setting! It gives live back to all my presets! It gives back the good old amp rumble and I can not explain how happy I am! @rzjd holy cow I would kiss you if I could!
I will still check out maybe a Fender Cab if I can visit Thomann in the near future just to check out how much that will add in addition to what I just discovered. The boxyness is away wohoooo!!!!
 
If you want it to sound like you’re playing through a guitar cab in the room with you, disable the cab block and run an amp model into a power amp and guitar cab in the room with you. There is no setting that can magically transform a cheap 8” plastic PA speaker into a cranked guitar cab.

However, since you’re trying to switch to IEMs you might as well get used to the sound of a mic’d cab, i.e. pretty much every recorded guitar tone you’ve ever heard, and pretty much every live guitar tone you’ve ever heard through a PA. You’re taking the next step from just plugging into an amp and hoping for the best, to building mic’d tones for live use that need to fit in a band mix, like every producer in history, so you need a good monitoring setup. Get rid of the 108 and get some good headphones/IEMs or decent studio monitors and at least some basic acoustic panels which can be DIY’d quite cheaply. Do some research on proper monitor placement and treatment options. Start building your presets in stereo to take advantage of the wide stereo imaging possible in IEMs. Dial in your tones in a band mix, comparing them to other recorded guitar tones you like, through the same speakers.
 
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WollVi3h said:
Oh wow... thanks so much for that detailed answer! Getting used to the modelling technology is really not that easy. There are lot of opinionated videos especially on YT which might or might not be sponsored and one gets easily sucked down in a whole of opinions and well.. if you dont know it better you believe some of that stuff. I will check the IO page out for sure and I will experiment with the placement of the speaker.



I will have a look at it. But you don't have a noticeable difference between the 108 and the other monitors you own? So, you say it might not be worth to upgrade it?


Never came across of it... I will give it a try! Have no idea what it does...
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Well, the EVs and Yamahas are both coax wedges, and 3-4x the price of the 108, and there are certainly valid reasons, but if not playing extremely loud, the 108 holds together for me very well. But "either/or", sure the Yam/EV frfrs are superior.

Again, I'm not a high-gain player, and I've also watched great engineers mixing and sculpting tones for decades, fine-tuning delays, compression, early reflections, gainstaging, etc.--and copied them mercilessly. ;-)

So all those hundreds of parameters and tweaks that go well beyond dialing in a tube amp are tricky, and important to the tone, and sometimes that can be the reason for things sounding subpar, if you don't have great skill with fx processing; the amp modeling is only part of it. Lots of trial and error if you haven't studied it! So that might be as valid an area for optimization as buying a better frfr.

For my purposes, I'd say that the 108 does a creditable job until you run into resonance artifacts at volume; I have no trouble getting very good tone (and touch) from it, and it isn't a constraining factor to me. At gigs or even rehearsing in halls with drums/percussion, the EV/Yamaha coax wedges leave nothing to be desired (to me).

They STILL may not do the "amp in the room" sound to yr satisfaction, however. Without hearing, maybe even playing through yr patches, I'm really just suggesting possibilities for investigation before spending more $$$ and perhaps still being unhappy with yr results. Good luck!.
 
Also, something im just learning.... If you are using 2 cabs make sure you check their alignment in the Align tab of the tab block. I find it helps take out some of the fizz.
 
Hi Wollvi3h,

I know you may not want to hear it, but it’s very rare that buying high end hardware is regretted. By that, I mean find the best frfr you can find, and save save save, until you can get a pair of them. From there, you’ll not think of it again.
Over the last many years, I have learned that when it comes from microphones, to speakers, buying high end is the way to go.
It’s easy to say “I cannot afford this or that”, however if you set yourself a goal, plan, and save until you can attain it, you will thank yourself later!

Thanks
Pauly
WollVi3h said:
Hey guys,

since you helped me with my topic yesterday and you are all very very helpful I thought I might try to address another topic.

I have the FM3 since around X-Mas last year and I am so far pretty happy with it. I play in a Hardrock / Metal Band. In the past I played through a Randall RD45 with 2x12 G212 (Harley Benton Vintage) Speakers (which I don't have anymore. Bad stuff happened and I needed to sell it... different story) and had some effects like a Cry Baby, Metal Muff, some Rev, Delay etc. I play the FM3 currently through a Headrush 108 with the global eq from the "flattening the Headrush curve" thread which helped a lot. But something is still... I don't know how to say it. Something feels not right? I know that through the Headrush I get the full signal chain including the Microphones from the IRs. But everything sounds always a little bit... artificial? If I try to play some good old Rock 'n Roll or choose a Fender Amp they never have that real tube sound and I got the feeling that every Amp sounds a little bit the same. Don't get me wrong, I have the sounds I like and I play with my band, but I have somehow the feeling that something is missing. I thought, ok maybe the presets are missing something, so I invested in a Fremen Preset pack. They are all pretty good, but it doesn't sound and feel like I play through a real Amp somehow (which of course it is not).

So since I am a little bit tight on my budget right know (we all are - always -, right?) what could help me to improve the sound? We want to go In-Ear in our rehearsal room for band practice soon so better FRFRs or SSD and Cab will improve the sound through that. But at least for playing at home I somehow want to have a little bit of that feeling back. I think what I might miss is that "Amp in the room" sound which I have read a lot. Which might not be achievable through FRFRs or is it?

Sorry if that question was already addressed (I am somehow pretty sure it was) but I couldn't find a solution for my specific (artificiality) problem. Or maybe I just need to get used to that new feeling.

Thanks a lot!
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pauly said:
Hi Wollvi3h,

I know you may not want to hear it, but it’s very rare that buying high end hardware is regretted. By that, I mean find the best frfr you can find, and save save save, until you can get a pair of them. From there, you’ll not think of it again.
Over the last many years, I have learned that when it comes from microphones, to speakers, buying high end is the way to go.
It’s easy to say “I cannot afford this or that”, however if you set yourself a goal, plan, and save until you can attain it, you will thank yourself later!

Thanks
Pauly
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Understood. Saving is the key.

strabes said:
If you want it to sound like you’re playing through a guitar cab in the room with you, disable the cab block and run an amp model into a power amp and guitar cab in the room with you. There is no setting that can magically transform a cheap 8” plastic PA speaker into a cranked guitar cab.

However, since you’re trying to switch to IEMs you might as well get used to the sound of a mic’d cab, i.e. pretty much every recorded guitar tone you’ve ever heard, and pretty much every live guitar tone you’ve ever heard through a PA. You’re taking the next step from just plugging into an amp and hoping for the best, to building mic’d tones for live use that need to fit in a band mix, like every producer in history, so you need a good monitoring setup. Get rid of the 108 and get some good headphones/IEMs or decent studio monitors and at least some basic acoustic panels which can be DIY’d quite cheaply. Do some research on proper monitor placement and treatment options. Start building your presets in stereo to take advantage of the wide stereo imaging possible in IEMs. Dial in your tones in a band mix, comparing them to other recorded guitar tones you like, through the same speakers.
Click to expand...
I have no problem with the sound of a mic'd amp. If have a problem with the sound that sounds like its missing something. I am pretty happy with what @rzjd told me and this solved my biggest issue I had with the sound yet. I got a smile in my face and had fun the whole rest of the day yesterday. And yes, it did some magic to me, believe me or not :). So I am pretty much satisfied right now. I will check out a new speaker anyways. Since I am not using the Audio Interface of the FM3 and want to practice with my PC sound also, I need some kind of speaker at least for home. And not always do I have the possibility to play In-Ear on stage. Maybe I need also a speaker for small gigs? Dumping everything and invest all in IEM might not work. But I really appreciate your opinion. I will do the research and see what I can improve at home.

Rex said:
Not really a threshold — more of a continuum. With pro and semi-pro speakers, you pretty much get what you pay for. Like @pauly said, save a bit, and get the best you can reasonably afford.
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Alright. I will drive to Thomann this year and check out what they have. Bring my old 108, FM3 and Guitar and test the hell out of those speakers.
 
Rex said:
Not really a threshold — more of a continuum. With pro and semi-pro speakers, you pretty much get what you pay for. Like @pauly said, save a bit, and get the best you can reasonably afford.
Click to expand...

I still don’t have the Fender FR speaker but they’ve been favorably reviewed here by many. If on a budget I think it would be a good option over the HR108.
 
rkbrock said:
Awesome! I also found with my fishman fluence equiped guitar reducing the input pad really changed how the fm3 feels and sounds.
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I second this. Although the FM3 and my own Fluences seem to get along very well overall no matter what settings I use.
 
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