How to change the Input source of Controllers according to the active physical Input ?

langohr

langohr

Inspired
The situation:

2 Guitars (via 2 Wireless receivers) attached to Input 1 and Input 2.
During the show are frequently changes between Input 1 and Input 2.

The change between Inputs is IMO typically done in one of three ways:
  1. Assign one switch in a contrary acting way to both "Bypass"-Buttons of Input and Input 2.
  2. Attach the Input Blocks to a multiplexer and switch via the Multiplexer.
  3. Assingn Input Block 1 and Input Block 2 sequentially in a row and bypass only the rightmost - last - Input Block in the row.
    A bypassed Input block is transparent and passes the signal chain in front of it.
    A not bypassed Input Block blocks the signal chain in front of it.

The problem:

The Controllers for
  • Tempo / Pitch
  • ADSR 1
  • ADSR 2
  • Envelope
receive their source signal by default from Input 1.

Of course you can - for example - easily setup a second channel - say Channel "B" - where the Controllers get their source signal from Input 2.

But ....

... how can you change between Input 1 and Input 2 and change the source signal of the Controllers between Input 1 and Input 2 accordingly ?

Up to now I found no 1-button-way to solve or work around the problem in a simple and erratic-free manner.

As one possible solution I posted a wish sometime ago which - understandably - got lost in the big heap of wishes:
https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/attach-a-controller-to-the-input-selectors-of-the-controllers-pitch“-adsr“-and-envelope“.169704/

Any help is highly appreciated .......
 
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mr_fender said:
What about a physical A/B switch out front and just use the Axe III's input 1. If you're running two separate wireless receivers, you could also upgrade to a single multi channel receiver for both guitars and switch over on the wireless receiver itself.
Click to expand...
With all respect to your suggestion and to Fractal‘s fantastic work, that seems a bit like building a second house only because a dumb key system in the first house cannot unlock two doors with one key.

What are separate Inputs for if not to use them ? …

From my point of view your suggestion causes other problems that had to be solved.
  1. Switching wireless units at the Input of AXE causes - sometimes loud - popping noises. KO criterium.
  2. A physical a/b switch takes additional space In the rack. In this case I‘d have to change from a 4HE unit to a 6 HE unit. I‘m not so keen on.
  3. Changing the wireless system is no option to me. I‘m using Stageclix devices because of two reasons: they work in the not-overcrowded 5,8 GHz band (very few systems do) and the small transmitters are directly attached to the jack, so I have no disturbing cables and no transmitter fixed to the belt. Use them for around 10 years now and love them.
 
mr_fender said:
What about a physical A/B switch out front and just use the Axe III's input 1. If you're running two separate wireless receivers, you could also upgrade to a single multi channel receiver for both guitars and switch over on the wireless receiver itself.
Click to expand...
I use a midi controlled single mutil-channel receiver and and switch from it. Prior to that, I used a MIDI controlled A/B switch.

That being said, couldn't you use Channels in the Controller section and switch the input sources of Pitch, ADSR, and Envelopes to the needed input?
Edit- missed the point of the original post - sorry.
 
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I have a request at the Wish list that is somewhat related

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/thre...-as-sources-for-the-envelope-follower.155512/

Since the Envelope Follower currently only follows Input-1, when you use the Looper or the USB Input (reamping) it doesn't respond.

My request could be expanded to also use any other Input as source.

Or even more simple: Use the Input of the block where the modifier is used as source
 
langohr said:
With all respect to your suggestion and to Fractal‘s fantastic work, that seems a bit like building a second house only because a dumb key system in the first house cannot unlock two doors with one key.

What are separate Inputs for if not to use them ? …

From my point of view your suggestion causes other problems that had to be solved.
  1. Switching wireless units at the Input of AXE causes - sometimes loud - popping noises. KO criterium.
  2. A physical a/b switch takes additional space In the rack. In this case I‘d have to change from a 4HE unit to a 6 HE unit. I‘m not so keen on.
  3. Changing the wireless system is no option to me. I‘m using Stageclix devices because of two reasons: they work in the not-overcrowded 5,8 GHz band (very few systems do) and the small transmitters are directly attached to the jack, so I have no disturbing cables and no transmitter fixed to the belt. Use them for around 10 years now and love them.
Click to expand...
My wireless units are silent when you turn them off and on.
Not necessarily, on additional space with A/B. They can be light and small. I mounted mine on the vertical walls of the rack.
But to your point, if you already have a wireless solution in place, the above may not be a viable solution.
 
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Sorry, reread the original post. It a one button solution for doing both.

Idea:
MIDI controller send command to toggle channels of multiplexer and channels of controller.

Would that work (I do not know what you are using to control the Axe-fx III)?
 
javajunkie said:
I thought it would do input 2 now?
View attachment 85596
Click to expand...
Yes, I‘m well aware of the fact that I can assign Input 1 and Input 2 to the controllers.

But, maybe you did not get the point.

Say, I‘m using Preset „A“.
On song 1 I use Preset „A“ and my guitar attached to input 1.
On song 2 I use Preset „A“ and my guitar attached to input 2.

I change the active Input Block from Input 1 to Input 2.

Now, to change the controllers from those attached to Input 1 to those attached to Input 2 I have to use a second „Tap“ type switch button to have an idicating light which set of controllers I have switched to.

That is neither impossible nor complicated to program.
But it takes 2 precious separate Switches on the FC and always 2 separate switching actions.
The situation as is is resource consuming, uncomfortable and on stage prone to errors.
Not more, not less.
 
javajunkie said:
Sorry, reread the original post. It a one button solution for doing both.

Idea:
MIDI controller send command to toggle channels of multiplexer and channels of controller.

Would that work (I do not know what you are using to control the Axe-fx III)?
Click to expand...
FC-12
 
javajunkie said:
Sorry, reread the original post. It a one button solution for doing both.

Idea:
MIDI controller send command to toggle channels of multiplexer and channels of controller.

Would that work (I do not know what you are using to control the Axe-fx III)?
Click to expand...
Maybe an idea.
I‘ll give it a try …. and of course feedback to you … 🙂
But may take a bit of time ….
 
javajunkie said:
My wireless units are silent when you turn them off and on.
Not necessarily, on additional space with A/B. They can be light and small. I mounted mine on the vertical walls of the rack.
But to your point, if you already have a wireless solution in place, the above may not be a viable solution.
Click to expand...
Yes, my wireless units are silent, too, if I switch them on and off.
But it‘s not silent if I physically switch two outputs of wireless units to one input of AXE.
 
How many scenes do you use? You could set up dedicated scenes for each guitar: duplicates but with other channels.

Not that this is the best solution.
 
langohr said:
Yes, I‘m well aware of the fact that I can assign Input 1 and Input 2 to the controllers.

But, maybe you did not get the point.

Say, I‘m using Preset „A“.
On song 1 I use Preset „A“ and my guitar attached to input 1.
On song 2 I use Preset „A“ and my guitar attached to input 2.

I change the active Input Block from Input 1 to Input 2.

Now, to change the controllers from those attached to Input 1 to those attached to Input 2 I have to use a second „Tap“ type switch button to have an idicating light which set of controllers I have switched to.

That is neither impossible nor complicated to program.
But it takes 2 precious separate Switches on the FC and always 2 separate switching actions.
The situation as is is resource consuming, uncomfortable and on stage prone to errors.
Not more, not less.
Click to expand...
was replying to Piing on that one.
 
langohr said:
Maybe an idea.
I‘ll give it a try …. and of course feedback to you … 🙂
But may take a bit of time ….
Click to expand...
Just a FYI (in case you don't know), Every channel will have unique setting for ALL the controllers settings. So you would want to copy channel A to channel B before you make the input change.
 
yek said:
How many scenes do you use? You could set up dedicated scenes for each guitar: duplicates but with other channels.

Not that this is the best solution.
Click to expand...
I use almost 8 scenes per setup.
Different presets for different guitars.
Different mixes of guitars in use depending of the songlist.
I see no way to have a strict order which guitar appears on wireless 1 and which on wireless 2.

I see no real way to settle my dilemma by an approach of a somehow more "straight" organization.
 
javajunkie said:
Just a FYI (in case you don't know), Every channel will have unique setting for ALL the controllers settings. So you would want to copy channel A to channel B before you make the input change.
Click to expand...
Yes, I know ... ;)
Here my feedback.

I tried your proposal. Unfortunately no success. Why ?

The Channel of the Controller Block cannot be changed either by MIDI, an external Switch or Pedal.
The reason: you cannot assign MIDI, Switch or Pedal to the Channel of the Controller Block (on present Firmware 16.04).

The Channel of the Controller Block can obviously only be changed by FC-12 (or FC-6 respectively).

And that gives no solution, too. Why ?

An FC-Switch can only execute one order (beside MIDI and Links).
Only an external switch can be assigned to several commands.

But ...

The FC-12 needs momentary switch types as stand-in switches.
On the other hand, toggling the "Bypass" of the Input Block needs a toggling switch.

So here I am stuck again.
 
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The oldest (and best in my opinion) request related to this problem is, as I said, old, and probably tricky to implement:
Allow Pitch, Envelope, and ADSR receive their input from the input of a grid block instead of a physical jack. Ideas floated have been to specify a block by its row/column, to create a dedicated Detector block, or to assign this capability to a common utility block such as Volume or Filter.
 
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