Wish How many of these wishes actually get implemented?

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Not trying to derail the thread with another comparison and I saw a very interesting comment from the Netflix CEO a few years back when they launched the first season of House of Cards. He said - we want to become HBO before HBO becomes Netflix. Obviously worried that if content providers would figure out the streaming thing, Netflix could be in big trouble.

Looking in our world in a sort of similar fashion, we have Fractal that clearly has the best modelling technology out there and there’s at least two, Line 6 and Headrush that clearly seem to have a better (friendlier, easier to use) user interface. So then we can ask ourselves, will Line 6 or Headrush get Fractal level modelling before Fractal get Line 6/Headrush level user interface? Unfortunately for us, I find it hard to believe that either of those scenarios will happen in the foreseeable future. I say unfortunately because if we could see Headrush massively improving on the aging Eleverack modelling, that could potentially be a real threat to the a Fractal business and they might be forced to do some drastic change. But as it stands now, that hardly seems likely and it seems that the safest option for Fractal is to make sure to stay way ahead on the modelling side instead of investing in the user interface side of things.

But, looking long term, say in 10 years from now, I would be really surprised if not all the interfaces would be touch screen interfaces ala Headrush, same as all (high end) phones these days are touch screen. So I’m hoping that somewhere this is on the Fractal long term roadmap but short term, I wouldn’t expect anything to really change. I.e we’ll continue to get great modelling updates but hardly any user interface improvements. And I would love it if I was wrong about that ;)
 
Johan Allard said:
Not trying to derail the thread with another comparison and I saw a very interesting comment from the Netflix CEO a few years back when they launched the first season of House of Cards. He said - we want to become HBO before HBO becomes Netflix. Obviously worried that if content providers would figure out the streaming thing, Netflix could be in big trouble.

Looking in our world in a sort of similar fashion, we have Fractal that clearly has the best modelling technology out there and there’s at least two, Line 6 and Headrush that clearly seem to have a better (friendlier, easier to use) user interface. So then we can ask ourselves, will Line 6 or Headrush get Fractal level modelling before Fractal get Line 6/Headrush level user interface? Unfortunately for us, I find it hard to believe that either of those scenarios will happen in the foreseeable future. I say unfortunately because if we could see Headrush massively improving on the aging Eleverack modelling, that could potentially be a real threat to the a Fractal business and they might be forced to do some drastic change. But as it stands now, that hardly seems likely and it seems that the safest option for Fractal is to make sure to stay way ahead on the modelling side instead of investing in the user interface side of things.

But, looking long term, say in 10 years from now, I would be really surprised if not all the interfaces would be touch screen interfaces ala Headrush, same as all (high end) phones these days are touch screen. So I’m hoping that somewhere this is on the Fractal long term roadmap but short term, I wouldn’t expect anything to really change. I.e we’ll continue to get great modelling updates but hardly any user interface improvements. And I would love it if I was wrong about that ;)
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Agreed but fractal not doing things just because the competition isn't as good, isn't what ultimately makes a product better. That's stagnation and just being a little better than the rest. It's great when things are done because they will improve the product even more. Even without Line 6 and Eleven Rack.... Strive to improve even if you are clearly in the lead. Fractal is in the lead and I don't want another piece of gear from the other vendors. I just would love some of the wish list items that are pretty basic to get looked at more. At this stage I am good with the modeling, it is the interface and usability that I believe needs attention the most. All good fellas.... Fractal is awesome and this is just one long time user that would applaud implementing some things other than just tweaking code for amp realness. That's all.
 
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Tremonti said:
I just would love some of the wish list items that are pretty basic to get looked at more. At this stage I am good with the modeling, it is the interface and usability that I believe needs attention the most. All good fellas.... Fractal is awesome and this is just one long time user that would applaud implementing some things other than just tweaking code for amp realness. That's all.
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I agree and I'm just relaying what I've seen in the few years I've been a Fractal customer. Look at the flagship Axe Fx 2. Look at firmware from 5 years ago and compare with the one released a couple of days ago (http://archive.axefx.fr/AxeFX II Firmwares/). Will you hear any difference? Hell yeah! Will you see any difference and notice any usability improvements? Not so much. Look at that historical data and project that in the future. Will Fractal be the gold standard for modelling in 5 years time in terms of accuracy and sound? I would be surprised if they are not. Will Fractal be the gold standard in 5 years when it comes to interface design and ease of use. Magic eight ball says don't count on it.

Again, I would love it if I was wrong about this and that we'll get like an Ax8 Mk2 (or maybe Ax8 Pro or Ax8 Plus) that rivals the screen and interface of the Headrush.
 
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I agree that it's ultimately a FAS decision how to spend precious development resources and I can understand that investments in updates on modelling will generate a lot more return than improvements on the u/i as new customers will be mostly attracted by the fact that they can replace their rig with a FAS device or get their dream rig w/o spending a fortune while u/i improvements will mostly matter to existing customers (no money in there).

For that reason I actually stopped posting wishes after a while, then later stopped commenting on wishes. As of today I only check this forum for bug reports.
 
Another thing that (to me) puts things in perspective is that FAS doesn't have the amount of programmers that Line 6/Yamaha or Eleven/Alesis probably have, being a much smaller company. The core AFXII firmware is pretty much all Cliff IIRC, with a team that ports that to AX8. It can be hard to do everything with a small crew, and some things have to be shuffled around and re-prioritized depending on current business needs.

For example, I manage a small diner. Are we as fast as McDonalds? Nope, but we can't afford the crew they have either. So we focus on quality over quantity. I imagine FAS's situation is similar.
 
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atquinn said:
As any longtime user knows, Fractal apparently has very little interest in "improving" anything that's not amp modeling related. That was the case long before the AX8 was released and I can't see that changing.
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Austin
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As a longtime user I can say your claim is completely false. The release note history stands as clear proof your statement about improvements not targeting "anything that's not amp modeling related" is not founded in reality.
 
ChristThePhone said:
I'm curious : does anybody know how many developers work for FAS ?
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While not a complete picture, if you want to get a rough idea of how big FAS is, go to the Members section of the forum and click on the "Staff Members" tab. It's a very small, agile and high-performing team.
 
ChristThePhone said:
investments in updates on modelling will generate a lot more return than improvements on the u/i as new customers will be mostly attracted by the fact that they can replace their rig with a FAS device or get their dream rig w/o spending a fortune while u/i improvements will mostly matter to existing customers]
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I disagree. New customers already *can* replace their rig, and they've been able to for a long time now. Unless what you meant was replacing their exact rig, but while there are certainly a lot of amps that could still be added, FAS have pretty much covered all the bases and offer way more amps than any other modeler (although I guess Kemper could have a profile for any amp in existence?).

But not everyone cares about 250 amps (channels)... what attracts many people is ease of use, they don't want to have to figure all this stuff out -- the other guitarist I play with ended up w/ a Helix mostly for this reason. He wanted to replace his Matchless, but didn't care about that exact amp - he just wanted a compact and lighter rig. He looked at the options. He's heard me for a number of years, ran FOH for my old band which is how we met, loves my sound, and decided he liked the simplicity and flexibility of the Helix UI. He isn't as interested in tweaking and has enough variety of amps and fx. He picked up a Matrix FR cab and he sounds great. (he's become partial to the DC-30 model lately... ;-)

Certainly on this forum we agree that the Axe is the best sounding gear out there. But not everyone does - the other gear can sound pretty great too and have their fans as well. There's a point of diminishing returns where they're all high quality enough that most people can no longer tell the difference. And then the selling point becomes something else - price, looks, cool factor, marketing, in these cases, ease of use. Read their marketing material - and you'll see a lot of emphasis on this exact feature. Plug and play vs the Axe reputation for being hard to get into. I love my Axes and FAS and have no interest in switching... but if I was just getting into modeling, I can't say that I wouldn't have chosen a Helix or Headrush either. I certainly would've taken them for a test drive.
 
Tremonti said:
Agreed but fractal not doing things just because the competition isn't as good, isn't what ultimately makes a product better. That's stagnation and just being a little better than the rest. It's great when things are done because they will improve the product even more. Even without Line 6 and Eleven Rack.... Strive to improve even if you are clearly in the lead. Fractal is in the lead and I don't want another piece of gear from the other vendors. I just would love some of the wish list items that are pretty basic to get looked at more. At this stage I am good with the modeling, it is the interface and usability that I believe needs attention the most. All good fellas.... Fractal is awesome and this is just one long time user that would applaud implementing some things other than just tweaking code for amp realness. That's all.
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You are speaking my language here. I have been saying the same thing for ages and the FAS fanboys get wound up as if I'm hanging crap on FAS. Weird....

It is frustrating to see so many truly awesome ideas to improve the effects and the usability seemingly being ignored whilst we keep getting updates of "improved triode hardness" or "grid plate induction" bla bla bla that no one ever asked for. Of course these things are great if you can even tell the difference but there are more obvious and far less subjective improvements that could be made that people actually are asking for (like polyphonic pitch detection and the list goes on and on......)

It seems like a strange set of priorities. I just don't get it..... :/

I have tuned out of the FW updates cause I'm usually bored with the addition of amps I'll never use and lack of improvements to usability, applications or effects. I'm still on Q4. I've seen little real reason to update. If someone wants to convince me why I should update my FW I'm happy to hear it.
 
jefferski said:
But not everyone cares about 250 amps (channels)... what attracts many people is ease of use, they don't want to have to figure all this stuff out.

There's a point of diminishing returns where they're all high quality enough that most people can no longer tell the difference. And then the selling point becomes something else - price, looks, cool factor, marketing, in these cases, ease of use. Read their marketing material - and you'll see a lot of emphasis on this exact feature. Plug and play vs the Axe reputation for being hard to get into.
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Exactly, the Helix and other devices DO sound amazing and whilst they may not be as feature rich they are SO MUCH easier to use which wins a significant market share. I think FAS is lucky it has established it's user base and it's reputation for quality long before the Helix and Headrush were released as many FAS early adopters may have otherwise swung toward a far more user friendly device than the FAS products.

In any case, the competitors have smartly capitalised on the critical weakness of the FAS devices and that is clearly the ease of use. And given the fact that we are reaching/reached the point diminishing returns FAS will have to conform and improve their usability or risk becoming as irrelevant to most people as having 250+ amp models when most people only really need a few.

I think we have been at the point for a while now where FAS is needlessly fixating on splitting hairs for incremental and arguably subjective improvements whilst competitors are making far more dramatic and tangible gains in areas where FAS has neglected. I am sad and disappointed that this seems to be where things have gotten stuck, there is so much more potential for greater improvements and the wish list (covered in cobwebs) is a good place to see that.
 
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You can please some of the people all of the time, all of the people some of the time but Fractal users never.
 
atquinn said:
As any longtime user knows, Fractal apparently has very little interest in "improving" anything that's not amp modeling related. That was the case long before the AX8 was released and I can't see that changing.
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iaresee said:
As a longtime user I can say your claim is completely false. The release note history stands as clear proof your statement about improvements not targeting "anything that's not amp modeling related" is not founded in reality.
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As a long time user I actually agree with Atquinn. The development of the effects, usability and application has stalled dramatically and a clear focus on Amp tones has been in place for a long time now. Whilst some small amount of tweaks and improvements to the effects has happened it has dropped off dramatically compared to what it once was. Many great ideas exist to make wider improvements and expansion to the Axe Fx platform aside from Amp tones which is clearly where the vast majority of the development has been.
 
Sonofiam said:
You can please some of the people all of the time, all of the people some of the time but Fractal users never.
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This kind of statement doesn't really help anything. We are raising some reasonable points that should be heard. I'm glad to see that it's not just me who has noticed what is being discussed here. We care about FAS and enjoy the products but I (speaking for my self) am concerned that FAS is fixating on splitting hairs and losing sight of the wider game which has seen other manufacturers make significant gains. No doubt the FAS team are busily working away but when you're at the point of diminishing returns you are better off concentrating efforts in areas that offer more potential for real tangible and obvious improvement.
 
Ant Music said:
This kind of statement doesn't really help anything. We are raising some reasonable points that should be heard. I'm glad to see that it's not just me who has noticed what is being discussed here. We care about FAS and enjoy the products but I (speaking for my self) am concerned that FAS is fixating on splitting hairs and losing sight of the wider game which has seen other manufacturers make significant gains. No doubt the FAS team are busily working away but when you're at the point of diminishing returns you are better off concentrating efforts in areas that offer more potential for real tangible and obvious improvement.
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;)
 
The fact that the Wish List even exists puts Fractal above most manufacturers. The fact that they actually implement some speaks to their commitment to make a product with the end user in mind. Most people think their idea is the best one or because it's possible on another product should be added to _X_. Because it's so good, they can't understand why it's not implemented and get offended.
I can understand a manufacturer taking a position of keeping within the boundaries of the original intent for a product and tweaking the functionality only when an idea improves upon the product without re-defining it's purpose or intended use.
 
I've stayed out of it, but will join now...

I suppose the responsiveness of FAS has fostered this sort of behaviour. While I understand some of what is said, the bottom line is that FAS is still a small company. Please don't lose track of the fact that compared to almost any company that I've had experience with, NONE compares to the way this company listens to it's users. To stack them up to another organization that just 'does what they want to do anyway', is unfair, and completely wrong. Just because you have a pet wish that you've been counting on and 'my lord, it's been YEARS...why don't I have it???' does not mean you're entitled to it...it may never come.

The fact that there's a wish list, and that it's actually READ by the owner of the company and occasionally acted upon is not good enough for some folks. The expectation is 'I better see it in the new release.' It raises my hackles.

I am satisfied with the choices FAS has made, but will allow that they take into account wishes that align with the direction they want the product to go in. Frankly, high quality amp modeling is what drives this product. I think the FX are excellent and far exceed what would be expected in this box.

I just think threads like this are unproductive and hurtful. They usually involve an agenda where it's really a demand for that feature that will replace my <whatever I want>.

IMO.
 
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