Hoping to get amp/cab captures in Fractal gear in the future, does that appeal to anyone?

BROCKSTAR said:
Excuse my ignorance but what is "white-box"? lol
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I THINK it's just another way to say FAS is modeling the components within the modeled amps.

Black box means you don't have knowledge of the internal workings, so you're just trying to mimic the end result. White box means you have knowledge of the internals.
 
I am holding on for the next iteration. Tbh I have not been impressed with the Helix Stadium tones I have heard. They sound great, but my Axe III sounds better so far. The cloning engine is intriguing, and the Showcase automation system is very impressive and we all know they have an amazing UI. But the amps and FX from the Axe III are just so good that I am very excited to see what FAS bring next. NAM support will be incredible.
 
BROCKSTAR said:
Excuse my ignorance but what is "white-box"? lol
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Afaik, it means modelling each sub component of a reference amplifier (or other device) to create an overall amp model that acts like the real thing including reaction to knob position changes, typical mods etc. (as opposed to profiling which is capturing just the end result / output of an amp or amp/cab or pedal ...)
 
mr_fender said:
Yep. Black box means you only care about the output you get for a given input. You don't care about the how.

From a broad digital guitar processing perspective, Black box = profiling and White box = modeling.

In reality it's not always that cut and dry. There can be overlap between the two.
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Technically, isn't Fractal modeling as well, just at a lower level, micro-modeling individual components?
 
Yes Fractal is entirely modeling. They don't do any profiling at all so far.

Also, Fractal doesn't always model every single component of a given device. I'd bet it's more of a simplified version of the circuit with all the non-audio components omitted. No point modeling things like channel switching and control circuitry, panel indicator lights, effects loop stages, etc. if they are not going to be part of the active audio path.
 
I've always preferred Fractal over Line 6, but I've been tempted to preorder the Stadium. I'm really looking forward to seeing how the Stadium (with modeling, proxy, and all the GUI and workflow enhancements) will compare to the next generation of Fractal hardware (with modeling, NAM support, and unknown GUI and workflow enhancements).

That said, I have to ask whether it is technically feasible/possible to add NAM support to the VP4?

If Fractal added NAM support to the VP4, they’d probably take a substantial share of the Tonex market. If the VP4 could be used as a NAM loader, I probably wouldn’t have bought my OG Tonex pedal and two Tonex One pedals. And the next generation will probably sell like hotcakes based on the new white box modeling alone, which is Fractal’s stated main focus — with NAM support added only as spice, or as an alternative.

(I still love my VP4 without NAM functionality, of course.)
 
I don't really care about captures honestly.
I hope only a couple of updates for the next gen:
  • block library saved on the unit
  • EHX pog2/swello for that "attack trick"

The rest is already perfect.
 
Cliff has been criticised for his "Game Boy" comment (mostly misunderstood) and will perhaps be criticised for this "announcement".

But I have to admit, the comments have had an effect on me — I might not put in an order for the Stadium after all (with my bias toward Fractal in the first place).
 
JB_5150 said:
So recently I tried the tonex brown sound pack and I’m blown away.. i usually hate tonex stuff. But this is insane. I tried recreating this sound on the fm3 for a year and a half with no luck. Hundreds of thousands of people have been trying to recreate eddies tone for decades now. And tonex of all people pulled it off.
Anyways, I’m hoping to see amp with cab captures in the future for fractal because that would absolutely change the game. A downloadable amp/cab block that you can drop in? It makes for such easy plug and play. Which would appeal to a much much broader audience. You’d have the best of both worlds. What do you guys think?
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I get where you're coming from — ToneX does an amazing job at capturing that specific “brown sound snapshot.” But what you're describing (amp + cab captures) is actually the opposite of Fractal’s core philosophy.


Fractal’s whole approach is white-box modeling, not black-box capturing. Cliff and the team don’t record how an amp sounds — they recreate how it works, component by component, using math that models tubes, transformers, biasing, tone stacks, and dynamic interactions in real time. That’s why you can tweak almost anything and still get physically accurate results.


Capture-based systems (ToneX, Kemper, QC) use a data-driven “black box” method. They learn the output behavior of one specific rig under certain conditions. It’s quick, plug-and-play, and great for getting that sound fast — but it’s limited. You can’t really go inside and change the amp’s DNA, because there’s no model underneath, just a snapshot.


Cliff has mentioned many times that this limitation is exactly why Fractal doesn’t do captures. The goal isn’t to reproduce one amp tone, it’s to model the entire circuit so you can build or modify any tone from the ground up.


So while the idea of downloadable amp/cab “captures” sounds convenient, it would actually go against what makes Fractal unique — the precision, flexibility, and depth of true physical modeling.


In short:

ToneX gives you a photo of an amp.
Fractal gives you the amp itself.
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Daniel Hayden said:
I get where you're coming from — ToneX does an amazing job at capturing that specific “brown sound snapshot.” But what you're describing (amp + cab captures) is actually the opposite of Fractal’s core philosophy.


Fractal’s whole approach is white-box modeling, not black-box capturing. Cliff and the team don’t record how an amp sounds — they recreate how it works, component by component, using math that models tubes, transformers, biasing, tone stacks, and dynamic interactions in real time. That’s why you can tweak almost anything and still get physically accurate results.


Capture-based systems (ToneX, Kemper, QC) use a data-driven “black box” method. They learn the output behavior of one specific rig under certain conditions. It’s quick, plug-and-play, and great for getting that sound fast — but it’s limited. You can’t really go inside and change the amp’s DNA, because there’s no model underneath, just a snapshot.


Cliff has mentioned many times that this limitation is exactly why Fractal doesn’t do captures. The goal isn’t to reproduce one amp tone, it’s to model the entire circuit so you can build or modify any tone from the ground up.


So while the idea of downloadable amp/cab “captures” sounds convenient, it would actually go against what makes Fractal unique — the precision, flexibility, and depth of true physical modeling.


In short:
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You must have missed it.
 
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