High gain amps sound flubby and muddy

Forget about using patches that somebody else created, specially if they were created with a much older firmware, whatever sound this guy got out of that patch back then, it is bound to sound completely different for you today. About you original recording, it has way too much gain, with this amount anything will sound muddy, specially when you start to double things.

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Aside from less gain you could try a different cab, they have a huge impact on the sound, and of course you can adjust the tone controls, the default settings don't automatically sound good for all of us. Concerning your problem with the gate, at least your first clip sounds like your palm muting could be better (no offense intended). With very low tunings thicker strings are needed, which gauge are you playing?

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Thanks for the answer Marcus. That flubbyness is stiller there even with low gain. You are right with palm mute. I use a
13-74 set for drop g on a 6 string. It's 27" scale.
 
yikes, 5153 Red with TS in front? :shock

I've had a similar problem with SD Blackouts, none of the hi-gain amps seemed tight enough in the low-end. I've swapped them for passive pups and hi-gain amps became easier to dial-in.

but anyway, try what everyone else suggested, try different IRs, because YES IT'S A BIG DEAL.
also, not every hi-gain amp plays nice with tubescreamers in front, certainly not the 5150 II (6505+ in real life I think), or the RED channel on a 5150III.

also, .74 for drop G on a 27" is too tight for my taste, both sonically and in terms of playability, but perhaps that's more about personal preference.
 
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poisonedblack said:
Firmware updated to 16.02 and same results :mrgreen

It sounds that super high gain with drive at noon. The lack of clarity is there even if I lower the drive knob.

It still sounds muddy with all high gain amps i've tried trying different input gains.

Thanks for the answers guys!
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Try to mess around with another IRs. Choosing the correct one seems to be the key for great high gain tones
 
alexwald said:
yikes, 5153 Red with TS in front? :shock

I've had a similar problem with SD Blackouts, none of the hi-gain amps seemed tight enough in the low-end. I've swapped them for passive pups and hi-gain amps became easier to dial-in.

but anyway, try what everyone else suggested, try different IRs, because YES IT'S A BIG DEAL.
also, not every hi-gain amp plays nice with tubescreamers in front, certainly not the 5150 II (6505+ in real life I think), or the RED channel on a 5150III.

also, .74 for drop G on a 27" is too tight for my taste, both sonically and in terms of playability, but perhaps that's more about personal preference.
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I did that too with the pups and got more dynamics and a way better tones. The signal droped after the swap which was easy to compensate but the overcompression was gone.
 
Active Pickups are not the problem, I am using EMG 81s in many of my guitars. The strings you are using sound fine to me, thick strings may be hard to play for some people, for me they are essential, I want them to feel tight, specially when I play fast stuff. I have no idea if the 5153 works with a tube screamer, I don't really like this amp so I never really tried it, but as long as you keep the gain in the Tubescreamer at 0 things should be ok. For low tunings (B flat) I am using the FAS Brootalz, also with a Tubescreamer I'm front of the amp, the gain in the Tubescreamer is set to 0 and I think in the amp it is somewhere around 3, since I am not at home I can't check this right now though. My cab is an Ownhammer Rectocab.

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I have a similar sound chain with a 5153 Red and that preset has even tighter bottom as all the other high gain amps I'm using. Except for the guitar, the biggest impact on the sound has the IR. I think the most people here agree on that. I can't hear your sound sample at the moment and I don't have my Axe FX in front of me at the moment but I'll share my approach with you, it might maybe help you. This is how I get rid of the mud and flubbyness:

I would firstly bypass the compressor and the noise gate block (and all oder modifiers) and leave only the drive (bypassed until you've tweaked your amp to your taste), amp and the cab block. Than I would find the right IR. I found that all those german cabs and those cabs corresponding to the high gain amps (or their stock IRs) are to muddy for my taste. I like the 062) 4x12 V30 or the 055) 4x12 SLM Blue (OH) the most. They are just cleaner and brighter to me. My chain would be like

(Comp ->) Drive -> PEQ -> Amp -> Cab (-> Gate)

To cut the mud off:
Cab: low cut not under 45 Hz, turn it up to 80-100 Hz if you like it (you can try those cabs I suggested above). I mostly leave it at 45 Hz in the cab. High cut 12 kHz.
TS808 Mod - drive 0, tone 10. It really tightens the signal and acts like a pre EQ. The modded version since it keeps the punch in the low midds better then the normal one (or that is my personal perception). For rock I would maybe use the other one. If you want to push the amp some more, turn up the level. I do that rarely.
PEQ: low cut (blocking) under 80-200 Hz or even more, boost 1400 Hz a few dB with Q around 2.5 (the djenty trick, it works fine anyhow)
Amp: in the GEQ you have more possibilities to lower the bass frequencies or boost the mids. I rarely do that but you can if you still need it.
GEQ set to passive, 3 or 4 band after the cab or at the end of the chain has also good results as a final touch, as what I read here in the forum. I didn't experiment that much with it yet.
 
Try this: you can also use a lot of drive if you cut the low before the amp (use low cut or eq before amp block), then restore the low AFTER the amp (eq, or cab). The more you cut before, the more djent comes out.
 
Try using the 5 band GEQ setting within the amp block. Then boost the highs just a tad. That mesa style GEQ is powerful as hell. Especially with High gain stuff. Petrucci uses it a lot on his mkv. Give it a shot


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poisonedblack said:
I use a
13-74 set for drop g on a 6 string. It's 27" scale.
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Good lord, no wonder there's not a lot of clarity in that clip.

Try another amp, MUCH lower gain. Forget the EVH. If you're going to use a TS, put it at near zero gain and don't boost the level. Use a high pass EQ after the amp. You're going for clarity, not ridiculous gain or even bass. The bass is the bass guitar's job.
 
Do you have the ability to route it a cab? Im not sure if this is the first time youve used it through a FRFR type situation, PA speakers for example. Its VASTLY different in just the experience and how it feels. I listened to that patch you posted and to my ears that just sounds like what youd heard with a mic on a cab in a room...which is what it should be like. People telling you not to put a TS in front of it is just their opinion, i think go with it. KSE has done that for years and they get br00tal tones.
 
Don't forget to also use some of the tools Cliff has given us to shape your sound man. I'm a front panel tweaker and a high gain player (sounds like a Steve Miller Band song title).

I'll sometimes turn up the B+Constant to around 30 or 40 and that gives me better palm mutes. I also will "slightly" turn up Character, Dynamics, etc. You would be surprised sometimes how little tweaks here and there can impact your tone.
 
Flubbiness is almost always the result of too much bass at the input of the amp. Use the Cut switch and turn the bass control down. If the tone is then too thin, add bass back after the amp.
 
FractalAudio said:
Using outdated firmware.
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Flub has nothing to do with using a firmware that is "outdated" by a couple of months. It's not like he is using firmware 1. I'm still on FW15 and don't experience flubby or muddy tones. Remember when 15 was all the rage as recently as a month ago? No one was complaining about flub then.

OP - experiment with different IR's. For stock cabs, I like the 4x12 5153 Mix #1 Ultra-Res. And the 4x12 Basketweave TV Mix sounds good on pretty much anything. Also, nothing wrong with using a Tube Screamer in front of the 5153 Red to tighten things up, but make sure to turn the drive to -0- on the pedal and turn the level up. This will allow you to lower the drive in the Amp block and should help make things tighter. The TS808 Mod has a little more bass response so I would recommend the regular TS808 instead.
 
Listened to the clip, and it does sound way over gained. Turn down the amp gain and work on your picking technique. What impulse are you using?

I second the 4x12 5153 Mix #1 (UR) cab, it was one of my favorites before I bought some ownhammer impulses.


The tubescreamer is great for adding attack and aggression to a high gain amp, but you need to turn the amp gain down way more. More pedal gain and less amp gain equals tighter tone. Keep 'drive' on the tubescreamer at 0 or 1. Level goes up as high as you need it to. Another trick to tightening the tone is to boost the mids on the tubescreamer at 1400Hz, this adds a ton of tightness, great for the recto.


Other things to cut flubby bottom, as said earlier, the 'cut' switch on the front page of the amp cuts bottom frequencies at the input. Its pretty much mandatory for some amps (like the recto). I have it on for almost all my high gain patches.

The low cut frequency in the T808 pedal helps too. I leave mine somewhere around 500hz to 600hz depending on the amp. Again, less lows into the input of the amp equals tighter tone. Don't overdo it though, or it gets thin.

Cut bass after the amp if you have a rumbly bottom end. The low cut in the cab block works, as does the poweramp low cut in the amp settings.
 
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