High frequency in tone of pickup selection

S

SVOhio

Member
Quick history.... I never had this issue the first 6 months of owning my FM9 (bought Jan 2023). Then one day, while playing, the tone started sounding as if it were on the verge of feeding back. The tone had this annoying high frequency characteristic no matter the pickup position (5-way H-S-S), however, mostly noticeable on single coils, as I kind of expected with their humming characteristics. A comment was made that the FM9 allows for FRFR (Full-Range-Frequency-Response) of the guitar and suggested I should adjust my CAB settings to a range close to a guitar cabinet. So my Low/High cut settings for my CABs are 80 / 10K. And that worked!

Well, that seemed to work for about 6 months and now I'm having the same issue but now that includes feedback when single coils are involved, Like HS or just S. I haven't changed anything. I'm diehard set in my tone and I'm not one to adjust anything. I have backed off some Gain and Master Volume, but that has not helped, and lose when I have to do that.

Amazing, for the 35 years I've been playing, I've never had any of these issues (Formerly JMC 800 Marshall, with delay and reverb only). So I'm not really experienced in dealing with this from a digital perspective and I am willing to learn.

Any suggestions? Suggestions to the point of spelling out frequencies I should and should not cut.... if it is really a digital issue that is?!?


1715013598236.png
 
@strabes Attached is the preset. As for a clip, change the file extension from txt to mp3. I just played a chord and little fill moving through the 5-way. The band I play in uses in-ears, so no monitors, and I'm behind all the audio (mains). Just being old school there may be room for improvement on my part, so you may see settings that don't make sense.

Thanks!
 

Attachments

  • Rig 2.syx
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  • H-HS-S(m)-SS(MK)-S(K).txt
    766 KB · Views: 7
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That doesn't sound weird to me at all, though I've been playing with IRs for a long time now. I would suggest that the only thing at 10kHz is cymbals - you can pull your cab high cut all the way down to 3kHz and not be out of line based on speaker plots I've seen. You may find that something in the 4k-7kHz frequency range for high cut is more appropriate.
 
elvis said:
You may find that something in the 4k-7kHz frequency range for high cut is more appropriate.
Click to expand...
That's pretty normal. EV's guitar speakers have a bit more high-end from what I've seen, so for presets using those I expect a bit more "sizzle" coming through.
 
@elvis @Greg Ferguson @strabes So that's good to know it is something normal as for the high end in the preset.

So the second reason for my asking about the high-end in the preset.... >> could my Fractal and preset be the cause of feedback during live performances using my single coils? When I "buck them" (2 together) so-to-speak, I'm good. Mine are 1989 Seymour Duncan passives from a HM Strat (like Greg Howe). I know the basic principle causes of feedback. I'm using in-ears (we don't have floor monitors), I'm behind the mains. It's just me, my guitar and the fractal. I can't imagine it is my guitar but rather something interfering outside my control. However, I wouldn't mind some insight since this is a pretty common setup these days.
 
SVOhio said:
@elvis @Greg Ferguson @strabes So that's good to know it is something normal as for the high end in the preset.

So the second reason for my asking about the high-end in the preset.... >> could my Fractal and preset be the cause of feedback during live performances using my single coils? When I "buck them" (2 together) so-to-speak, I'm good. Mine are 1989 Seymour Duncan passives from a HM Strat (like Greg Howe). I know the basic principle causes of feedback. I'm using in-ears (we don't have floor monitors), I'm behind the mains. It's just me, my guitar and the fractal. I can't imagine it is my guitar but rather something interfering outside my control. However, I wouldn't mind some insight since this is a pretty common setup these days.
Click to expand...
Hmmm. Feedback from acoustic coupling shouldn't be happening. That requires sound from a speaker to the guitar, back through the modeler then to the speaker, etc. If the room's volume is really loud it might trigger it I guess but I haven't ever had that happen, it's only when I'm directly in front of a speaker, either a tube amp or the FRFR.

There are no monitors or speakers on stage? Magnetic coupling can occur from tweeters to the guitar's pickup, and it's a shrill/high-pitched screech.

It sounds like you can tap the pickups. If the pickups use standard humbucker springs instead of latex tubing to hold them in place there can be more vibration shaking the pickup if it's loud. And if the pickups aren't potted that could do it too.

How much gain are you using? Or, said differently, are you able to control the problem using the guitar's volume control? Has this only happened in one place or is it a consistent problem at other venues? Does it occur with other guitars?

SVOhio said:
So my Low/High cut settings for my CABs are 80 / 10K.
Click to expand...
Even with EV cabs in a preset I'll reduce the high end to 8K for a clean scene because I want the upper frequencies and from experimenting I found there's very little difference between 8KHz and 10K, at least for my ears, whereas 5K to 8K was a bit more noticeable. For a scene with gain I'll drop it to 5k because the odds are good the band is rocking at that point and the highs would clutter the sound.
 
If you're using FRFR cabs, it could be related to tweeter squeal. Getting too close to a tweeter with your pickups can cause some nasty feedback.
 
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mr_fender said:
If you're using FRFR cabs, it could be related to tweeter squeal. Getting to close to a tweeter with your pickups can cause some nasty feedback.
Click to expand...
I've noticed this when standing by my desk monitors, didn't know it was a thing. Thanks!
 
SVOhio said:
Quick history.... I never had this issue the first 6 months of owning my FM9 (bought Jan 2023). Then one day, while playing, the tone started sounding as if it were on the verge of feeding back. The tone had this annoying high frequency characteristic no matter the pickup position (5-way H-S-S), however, mostly noticeable on single coils, as I kind of expected with their humming characteristics. A comment was made that the FM9 allows for FRFR (Full-Range-Frequency-Response) of the guitar and suggested I should adjust my CAB settings to a range close to a guitar cabinet. So my Low/High cut settings for my CABs are 80 / 10K. And that worked!

Well, that seemed to work for about 6 months and now I'm having the same issue but now that includes feedback when single coils are involved, Like HS or just S. I haven't changed anything. I'm diehard set in my tone and I'm not one to adjust anything. I have backed off some Gain and Master Volume, but that has not helped, and lose when I have to do that.

Amazing, for the 35 years I've been playing, I've never had any of these issues (Formerly JMC 800 Marshall, with delay and reverb only). So I'm not really experienced in dealing with this from a digital perspective and I am willing to learn.

Any suggestions? Suggestions to the point of spelling out frequencies I should and should not cut.... if it is really a digital issue that is?!?


View attachment 139949
Click to expand...

I cut a lot deeper than you are. I’m usually in the 5-7k range for hi cuts with a slope of 12 or 18db. Buckers, singles, P90’s all cut to at least 7khz.
 
I'm late to the party, but that file sounded good to me...
I cut the cab block around 7k @ 6dB
 
There are no monitors or speakers on stage? Magnetic coupling can occur from tweeters to the guitar's pickup, and it's a shrill/high-pitched screech.
Click to expand...

@Greg Ferguson @ Anyone ... This is correct and exactly what happens (see quote). So, I stand about 3' to the side and to the back of the main speaker on my side. Even though they aren't pointed inward could that be close enough to cause the feedback? I could be wrong, but experience tells me, and I keep telling the band, this is too close with the volume we push.

@ Everyone else.... Thanks for the reassurance and the tips!!! Very cool! Thanks!
 
SVOhio said:
stand about 3' to the side and to the back of the main speaker on my side. Even though they aren't pointed inward could that be close enough to cause the feedback?
Click to expand...
Magnetism doesn’t really care about the direction, it’s how far away you are.

I think we have to be closer than 3’ to the speaker for tweeter squeal, but maybe not - it’s not something I want to deliberately reproduce just to measure the distance.

I had microphonic pickups squealing several feet away from the speaker with sufficient gain, both with humbuckers and single-coils, playing through a dimed 22 watt 1x12 combo.

I’d try:
  • standing a foot farther to the side and maybe another foot back or swapping positions with another member not playing a guitar or bass. Keyboards, percussion, vocals or horns should be fine, anything without that style of pickup.
  • reducing the gain of the guitar. Headphones and in-ears reduce the gain because they interrupt the acoustic-coupling that occurs with an electric guitar and amp or modeler and speaker normally. We counter that by increasing the gain in the amp but then that affects the sound too. See “The "Modelers Don't Clean Up with the Volume Knob" Myth” for more information, and read the posts to that article.
  • switching to a guitar with potted pickups temporarily to see if that helps.

I’m sure others will have ideas too.
 
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You are getting magnetic feedback from the speaker. This is commonly known as "tweeter squeal". Move further away.
 
FractalAudio said:
You are getting magnetic feedback from the speaker. This is commonly known as "tweeter squeal". Move further away.
Click to expand...
@FractalAudio Thanks! This makes total sense. I really believed I'm too close to the PA speakers. So, I'm curious, does increase the volume expand the magnetic field since driving volume requires more electrical input?
 
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