Hey D20, please have a look here

[Deltones]

D,

Remember when I asked you to post just one untreated guitar track from one of you clips a few days ago? Please have a look at the picture below. On top is the spectral curve from your single guitar track, and below is mine, also from an untreated track coming from my preset. For the life of me, I can't explain the massive spikes I get compared to yours. Your track sound right while mine makes me want to get a fly swatter and kill all the bees. What's your opinion on this? If it helps, my guitar is a Godin Velocity with a SD SH-5 in the bridge. Before you ask, no, I don't have a lot of preamp gain on tap on my preset, it's below 5 in fact.

Your insight, and others too would be appreciated. Oh, here's my preset file if you want to have a look at it. It's in attachement.

 

[Charlie Wardick]

Those are from the same syx patch? D20 likely played on a guitar with EMGs.

 

[Deltones]

Those are from the same syx patch? D20 likely played on a guitar with EMGs.

No, the first curve is from D20's mp3 he posted on another thread with his own patch. The second curve comes from my preset, played on my guitar.

 

[D20]

Those are from the same syx patch? D20 likely played on a guitar with EMGs.

You are correct sir!

What's your opinion on this?

It could just be that we are using different guitars with different pickups. Not sure if i have said it before, but i use a Schecter C-1 Blackjack with EMG 81/85 (thanks again Charlie! )

Other than that i'm really not sure what else it could be. If there is anyway i can help out more, let me know and i will be glad to.

 

[Deltones]

Those are from the same syx patch? D20 likely played on a guitar with EMGs.

You are correct sir!

What's your opinion on this?

It could just be that we are using different guitars with different pickups. Not sure if i have said it before, but i use a Schecter C-1 Blackjack with EMG 81/85 (thanks again Charlie! )

Other than that i'm really not sure what else it could be. If there is anyway i can help out more, let me know and i will be glad to.

Actually, you could. Please have a look at the patch I posted in the first post, and record a short clip (let's say 10 sec) with it, played on the low A string. Just play a double-picked B on the second fret for 10 sec and post the mp3 of that lone track. I'll have a look a the frequency spectrum and compare with mine.

Thanks man.

 

[RiF]

Looks weird, first I thought that I recognize a pattern in the spikes 120-240-x-480-... but that doesn't seem to be the case. But you aren't analyzing a sine wave either...
Deltones, do you have ANY other guitar to check if the spikes come from the guitar or from something else?
Are you VERY SURE that there's nothing in the signal chain that can produce any kind of unwanted distortion (distortion can be seen as spikes, too)? You do not have any clipping (including inside the Axe-Fx) ANYWHERE in your signal chain?

 

[D20]

Those are from the same syx patch? D20 likely played on a guitar with EMGs.

You are correct sir!

What's your opinion on this?

It could just be that we are using different guitars with different pickups. Not sure if i have said it before, but i use a Schecter C-1 Blackjack with EMG 81/85 (thanks again Charlie! )

Other than that i'm really not sure what else it could be. If there is anyway i can help out more, let me know and i will be glad to.

Actually, you could. Please have a look at the patch I posted in the first post, and record a short clip (let's say 10 sec) with it, played on the low A string. Just play a double-picked B on the second fret for 10 sec and post the mp3 of that lone track. I'll have a look a the frequency spectrum and compare with mine.

Thanks man.

Right on. I'll have to try this either tonight or tomorrow though because i'm at work, and won't be around my Axe until then.

 

[Deltones]

Right on. I'll have to try this either tonight or tomorrow though because i'm at work, and won't be around my Axe until then.

Great, I appreciate your collaboration on this.

 

[Deltones]

Looks weird, first I thought that I recognize a pattern in the spikes 120-240-x-480-... but that doesn't seem to be the case. But you aren't analyzing a sine wave either...
Deltones, do you have ANY other guitar to check if the spikes come from the guitar or from something else?
Are you VERY SURE that there's nothing in the signal chain that can produce any kind of unwanted distortion (distortion can be seen as spikes, too)? You do not have any clipping (including inside the Axe-Fx) ANYWHERE in your signal chain?

Rif,

I went to Seymour Duncan's website to try to find a frequency chart for the SH-5 and find out if they had these kind of spikes as specs. Unfortunately, that's not how SD rolls to describe their pickups.

I have other guitars, but all single coils that I will need to check as reference. As for unwanted distortion, that's what I'm trying to find out. On the Ultra, there is no clipping red lights going off. In Reaper, I record a signal that is between -12 and -6db on average, but usually -12db.

Believe me, I'm trying to go through all the possibilities. We're talking about massive amount of eq to tame down those spikes. D20's recording a short clip for me with my preset and his EMG equiped guitar later on is going to be a very good point of comparison.

My signal chain is:

Godin Legacy - Ultra - Presonus Firestudio - Reaper. I have the Ultra output knob at 1 o'clock and the Firestudio gain knob between 7 and 8 o'clock. My monitors are Yamaha HS50-M

 

[RiF]

I have other guitars, but all single coils that I will need to check as reference. As for unwanted distortion, that's what I'm trying to find out. On the Ultra, there is no clipping red lights going off. In Reaper, I record a signal that is between -12 and -6db on average, but usually -12db.

Perfect.

Believe me, I'm trying to go through all the possibilities. We're talking about massive amount of eq to tame down those spikes. D20's recording a short clip for me with my preset and his EMG equiped guitar later on is going to be a very good point of comparison.

My signal chain is:

Godin Legacy - Ultra - Presonus Firestudio - Reaper. I have the Ultra output knob at 1 o'clock and the Firestudio gain knob between 7 and 8 o'clock. My monitors are Yamaha HS50-M

Perfect.

I find my self clueless...

But I am willing to help...
I have a Charvel 750XL with some EMG 81/89s, an ESP Hybrid with an SD SH4 (JB) and a Gibson Les Paul with stock PAF (and others that doesn't seem to matter here). I have Reaper, Sonar 8, PT LE 8 and Voxengo SPAN. So just tell me, if I can help.

 

[Deltones]

I have other guitars, but all single coils that I will need to check as reference. As for unwanted distortion, that's what I'm trying to find out. On the Ultra, there is no clipping red lights going off. In Reaper, I record a signal that is between -12 and -6db on average, but usually -12db.

Perfect.

Believe me, I'm trying to go through all the possibilities. We're talking about massive amount of eq to tame down those spikes. D20's recording a short clip for me with my preset and his EMG equiped guitar later on is going to be a very good point of comparison.

My signal chain is:

Godin Legacy - Ultra - Presonus Firestudio - Reaper. I have the Ultra output knob at 1 o'clock and the Firestudio gain knob between 7 and 8 o'clock. My monitors are Yamaha HS50-M

Perfect.

I find my self clueless...

But I am willing to help...
I have a Charvel 750XL with some EMG 81/89s, an ESP Hybrid with an SD SH4 (JB) and a Gibson Les Paul with stock PAF (and others that doesn't seem to matter here). I have Reaper, Sonar 8, PT LE 8 and Voxengo SPAN. So just tell me, if I can help.

Actually, there is something you can do to help. Listen to the link below. I just recorded that Exodus riff quickly with the patch I included in the first post. It's one track, untreated by any outside EQ but what was in the Ultra. Tell me what do you hear, and where it needs to be corrected. Of course, by posting that Exodus riff, now you know where I want to bring my patch :mrgreen:

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_songInfo.cfm?bandID=9202&songID=8114181

 

[D20]

Don't know if i played the exact note you were asking about, but i tracked single notes, and just some chords. Hope this helps

Oh and i did have to turn the Level on the Amp block down about -8.5 because the patch was clipping when i first sent it to the my Axe Fx.

Let me know if there is anymore i can do and i will gladly help out.


http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1046513/D20% ... 20Clip.mp3

 

[Deltones]

Don't know if i played the exact note you were asking about, but i tracked single notes, and just some chords. Hope this helps

Oh and i did have to turn the Level on the Amp block down about -8.5 because the patch was clipping when i first sent it to the my Axe Fx.

Let me know if there is anymore i can do and i will gladly help out.


http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1046513/D20% ... 20Clip.mp3

Don't worry about the -8.5db. I have to do the same thing when loading up others' preset.

Just listened to your clip. Will load it up in Reaper in a few minutes. I don't know what you think about the sound you got with my preset, but it sounds pretty brutal (in a good way) on my side. Very chunky. What's your recording interface by the way?

Please listen to the clip I posted on my previous post and compare with yours. Let me know what you think could be happening on my end.

Thanks guys.

 

[RiF]

A Lesson In Violence! Yeah! I remember listening to the record in a tent the year when it came out with some friends drinking beer, but my parents came visiting us for some reason (I have been like 15 or so) and we started hiding all those empty beers...

But back to the topic:
Both clips (last 2 posts) are playing though the very same patch, right?
D20's clip sounds so much better that I really cannot imagine that the different guitars could have that much an influence on the sound. I maybe hear some phasing going on, but I have no clue where it might come from as Deltones signal chain is fine.
Sorry D20, but I played EMGs for like 15 years and I now hate them to death and they do usually sound less organic than any other pickup, but here it is the other way round. Sorry, I have no clue.

 

[Deltones]

A Lesson In Violence! Yeah! I remember listening to the record in a tent the year when it came out with some friends drinking beer, but my parents came visiting us for some reason (I have been like 15 or so) and we started hiding all those empty beers...

But back to the topic:
Both clips (last 2 posts) are playing though the very same patch, right?
D20's clip sounds so much better that I really cannot imagine that the different guitars could have that much an influence on the sound. I maybe hear some phasing going on, but I have no clue where it might come from as Deltones signal chain is fine.
Sorry D20, but I played EMGs for like 15 years and I now hate them to death and they do usually sound less organic than any other pickup, but here it is the other way round. Sorry, I have no clue.

Tell me about it. I was listening to D20's clip and was like wtf? Why such a huge difference in quality? I'm totally baffled. A buddy of mine is coming over with his Dimarzio Super Distortion equiped BC Rich in a short while.I know his guitar sounds kick ass. If it doesn't sound good, I'll have to suspect either my Ultra as being defective, or my Firestudio.

Oh, and yeah, both clips are from my patch. The only difference is probably the cab. I'm using a Redwire's IR (V30 with 421 mike at 2 feet, cone edge). D20's probably replaced with his own cab.

Just thought of something following D20's comment about lowering by 8.5db the level parameters in the amp block. On my side, the only adjustment I had to do in the level department to not make my Ultra go into clipping is lower the final output level by 0.5db (the rightmost section on Lars old editor). Strange that D20 clips, and I don't).

Is lowering the level on the amp block different than lowering it at the final output area? I mean, technically and soundwise?

 

[RiF]

Oh, and yeah, both clips are from my patch. The only difference is probably the cab. I'm using a Redwire's IR (V30 with 421 mike at 2 feet, cone edge). D20's probably replaced with his own cab.

The cab IRs have so much an influence on the sound that it is nearly impossible to compare two sounds that are recorded with different cab IRs.
And another thing: Are you using a dual cab setup? If yes - especially with non-stock IRs - you can get major phasing issues.
D20 and you HAVE to use the very same cab IR(s) to compare the tones.

 

[Fikealox]

Sorry for the noob question, but how do you produce spectral analyses like those in the OP? I'd be curious to see what my tones look like - it might help in EQing etc.

 

[RiF]

Sorry for the noob question, but how do you produce spectral analyses like those in the OP? I'd be curious to see what my tones look like - it might help in EQing etc.

There are plugins that do exactly this. Just insert them on the track (or simply on the master bus) you want to analyze. The one Deltones is using is Voxengo SPAN (http://www.voxengo.com/product/SPAN/), which is free and one of the best analyzers around (but Win VST, Mac VST/AU only, no RTAS).

 

[RiF]

Is lowering the level on the amp block different than lowering it at the final output area? I mean, technically and soundwise?

Although I remember that I've read somewhere that the Axe-Fx is hard to clip internally (probably due to it's high resolution internal audio path with a lot of headroom), I try to keep the gain at unity throughout the whole block chain. That said, if something clips at the output stage, I try to find the one block that pushes up the volume and set that one to unity gain. I do not always do this, but I try... ;-)

 

[Deltones]

Sorry for the noob question, but how do you produce spectral analyses like those in the OP? I'd be curious to see what my tones look like - it might help in EQing etc.

Rif answered your question about the plugin already, but I want to address the last part of your reply, i.e it might help in EQing.

On a pro recording forum, I'd be blasted to hell, because they would say: Mix with your ears, not your eyes. They are right, but if you use a spectral analyzer only at times, I guess it can't hurt. Using it all the time to make mixing decision is probably the wrong way to go.