Hey D20, please have a look here

RiF said:
Deltones said:
Oh, and yeah, both clips are from my patch. The only difference is probably the cab. I'm using a Redwire's IR (V30 with 421 mike at 2 feet, cone edge). D20's probably replaced with his own cab.
Click to expand...
The cab IRs have so much an influence on the sound that it is nearly impossible to compare two sounds that are recorded with different cab IRs.
And another thing: Are you using a dual cab setup? If yes - especially with non-stock IRs - you can get major phasing issues.
D20 and you HAVE to use the very same cab IR(s) to compare the tones.
Click to expand...

Yeah, you're right about the IR situation, but I was not sure if D20 had the Redwire package or not. As for me using a dual cab, no I do not. Have a look at my patch, posted the my first post Rif. Maybe you'll see something I don't.
 
Oh, and yeah, both clips are from my patch. The only difference is probably the cab. I'm using a Redwire's IR (V30 with 421 mike at 2 feet, cone edge). D20's probably replaced with his own cab.
Click to expand...

Yeah i just loaded the patch and recorded the clip in Cubase 4. I don't have the Redwire IR, so however the patch load was what i used. Let me know if I can do anything else Deltones. ;)
 
D20 said:
Oh, and yeah, both clips are from my patch. The only difference is probably the cab. I'm using a Redwire's IR (V30 with 421 mike at 2 feet, cone edge). D20's probably replaced with his own cab.
Click to expand...

Yeah i just loaded the patch and recorded the clip in Cubase 4. I don't have the Redwire IR, so however the patch load was what i used. Let me know if I can do anything else Deltones. ;)
Click to expand...

You helped me a lot with your collaboration actually. It confirmed a lot of things, and I appreciate your, and Rif's posts on this. Thanks guys.
 
Deltones said:
D20 said:
Oh, and yeah, both clips are from my patch. The only difference is probably the cab. I'm using a Redwire's IR (V30 with 421 mike at 2 feet, cone edge). D20's probably replaced with his own cab.
Click to expand...

Yeah i just loaded the patch and recorded the clip in Cubase 4. I don't have the Redwire IR, so however the patch load was what i used. Let me know if I can do anything else Deltones. ;)
Click to expand...

You helped me a lot with your collaboration actually. It confirmed a lot of things, and I appreciate your, and Rif's posts on this. Thanks guys.
Click to expand...
Deltones, you're welcome. But did you find out where the differences and/or spikes actually came from?
 
RiF said:
Deltones, you're welcome. But did you find out where the differences and/or spikes actually came from?
Click to expand...

Well, I tried different guitars and checked the frequencies spikes in SPAN. They all displayed the same spikes at the same frequencies basically, which is kind of weird. I even plugged straight into the instrument input of my Firestudio to double check, and yep, same kind of frequency signature for the guitars I tried (Godin with humbucker, Tele, Danelectro U2). Really not sure what's going on.

Have you tried my patch by the way?
 
Deltones said:
RiF said:
Deltones, you're welcome. But did you find out where the differences and/or spikes actually came from?
Click to expand...

Well, I tried different guitars and checked the frequencies spikes in SPAN. They all displayed the same spikes at the same frequencies basically, which is kind of weird.
Have you tried my patch by the way?
Click to expand...
Sounds über-weird... but that makes me really curious ;-) I will check your patch this evening (European time) and will do some frequency analysis using different guitars.
Is your patch using stock cabinet IRs? If not, which stock ones should I use? I don't have the Red Wirez Irs.
Deltones said:
I even plugged straight into the instrument input of my Firestudio to double check, and yep, same kind of frequency signature for the guitars I tried (Godin with humbucker, Tele, Danelectro U2). Really not sure what's going on.
Click to expand...
Me too... Any chance that you could send a 1000 Hz sine wave through the Axe-Fx or directly into your Firestudio and do a freq analysis of this signal? If you'll see spikes other than the one at 1000 Hz, the problem does is somewhere outside of your Axe-Fx or guitars. It does not make any sense to see the same spikes using different guitars and playing anything else but a sine-wave (which is hard to do;-)).
 
RiF said:
Sounds über-weird... but that makes me really curious ;-) I will check your patch this evening (European time) and will do some frequency analysis using different guitars.
Is your patch using stock cabinet IRs? If not, which stock ones should I use? I don't have the Red Wirez Irs.
Click to expand...

I guess you can take you favorite V30 cab IR. At least, your chosen cab should display the same basic character as the Redwire one.

RiF said:
Me too... Any chance that you could send a 1000 Hz sine wave through the Axe-Fx or directly into your Firestudio and do a freq analysis of this signal? If you'll see spikes other than the one at 1000 Hz, the problem does is somewhere outside of your Axe-Fx or guitars. It does not make any sense to see the same spikes using different guitars and playing anything else but a sine-wave (which is hard to do;-)).
Click to expand...

Good idea with the sine wave, didn't think of that.
 
Dude, that has been one hell of a riddle! The solution has something to do with music theory, where I am not very good at. But I learned a lot today.
First: Deltones, I bet that the guitar-track you analyzed (yours, not D20's) has a lot of B-notes in there, does it?
The spikes you see in SPAN will appear at the very same place no matter what cab IR, amp model, guitar or audio interface you're using. What we see here are simply the overtones of a B (which is around 123 Hz, 123.47 to be exact). You can check the overtone-frequencies out with this tool here online after entering "123" for "Fundamental Frequency": http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-harmonics.htm
If you do, you'll get:
123 Hz root (B)
246 Hz 1st octave
369 Hz fifth over octave
492 Hz 2nd octave
615 Hz third over 2nd octave
738 Hz fifth over 2nd octave
861 Hz minor seventh over 2nd octave
984 Hz 3rd octave
1107 Hz whole tone over 3rd octave
1230 Hz third over 3rd octave
Check those frequencies with the SPAN screenshot and you will find those exact frequencies as spikes.
D20's track has probably been containing some riffage that's not solely a "B", so you cannot see the overtones as clearly as in yours.

That doesn't answer the question that D20's tone sounds better than yours, but I am pretty sure that the reason for this has to do with the cabinet IRs you're using. Use the same as D20 and the patch will sound the same (minus some minor differences due to different guitars).
 
RiF said:
Dude, that has been one hell of a riddle! The solution has something to do with music theory, where I am not very good at. But I learned a lot today.
First: Deltones, I bet that the guitar-track you analyzed (yours, not D20's) has a lot of B-notes in there, does it?
The spikes you see in SPAN will appear at the very same place no matter what cab IR, amp model, guitar or audio interface you're using. What we see here are simply the overtones of a B (which is around 123 Hz, 123.47 to be exact). You can check the overtone-frequencies out with this tool here online after entering "123" for "Fundamental Frequency": http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-harmonics.htm
If you do, you'll get:
123 Hz root (B)
246 Hz 1st octave
369 Hz fifth over octave
492 Hz 2nd octave
615 Hz third over 2nd octave
738 Hz fifth over 2nd octave
861 Hz minor seventh over 2nd octave
984 Hz 3rd octave
1107 Hz whole tone over 3rd octave
1230 Hz third over 3rd octave
Check those frequencies with the SPAN screenshot and you will find those exact frequencies as spikes.
D20's track has probably been containing some riffage that's not solely a "B", so you cannot see the overtones as clearly as in yours.

That doesn't answer the question that D20's tone sounds better than yours, but I am pretty sure that the reason for this has to do with the cabinet IRs you're using. Use the same as D20 and the patch will sound the same (minus some minor differences due to different guitars).
Click to expand...

Excellent post dude, just excellent. 369, 492 and 615 are the area that gave me a lot of head scratching. B on the low A string is indeed what I was mostly playing. The only thing I find bizarre is that I isolated the starting riff from the real "Lesson in Violence" and the double-picked B notes don't display those spikes. But this, I can understand is the result of the mastered track.

You win yourself a gold star for that post today man :mrgreen:

When you have time to try my patch, let me know. Before you ask, the reason I used the Hiwatt amp is because the only reference I could find about what Exodus used on "Bonded By Blood" is that's what they apparently used on the album. I'm trying to recreate that sound.
 
For what its worth - I downloaded the preset and used the V30 stock Cabinet and got nearly identical sound to D20's recording. The guitar I used had emg's. I would post a recording to help but I just moved and my spdif cable is mia.
 
Deltones said:
When you have time to try my patch, let me know. Before you ask, the reason I used the Hiwatt amp is because the only reference I could find about what Exodus used on "Bonded By Blood" is that's what they apparently used on the album. I'm trying to recreate that sound.
Click to expand...
Tried your patch, but solely for those analytical reasons. I somehow missed the fact that you were after replicating the original Exodus tone. I can try to nail that tone tonight (hopefully), but usually when doing such things, I find myself ending up using different amps than the originally recorded ones...
 
OK, here's my attempt to replicate the A Lesson in Violence tone. I guess, I did not quite nailed it, but it has been fun anyways.
You can listen to a short clip at netmusicians.org by clicking here and the patch (FW 8.05) is attached to this post.
As announced earlier, I did not use the models of the original Excodus equipment, but went for a JCM 800 model (which has been one of THE trash amps back in the days and Exodus' tone is pretty standard thrash) with a T808 MOD in front.
 

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matt15f said:
For what its worth - I downloaded the preset and used the V30 stock Cabinet and got nearly identical sound to D20's recording. The guitar I used had emg's. I would post a recording to help but I just moved and my spdif cable is mia.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, I don't have access to an EMG equipped guitar. Would have been a pretty good test though.
 
RiF said:
OK, here's my attempt to replicate the A Lesson in Violence tone. I guess, I did not quite nailed it, but it has been fun anyways.
You can listen to a short clip at netmusicians.org by clicking here and the patch (FW 8.05) is attached to this post.
As announced earlier, I did not use the models of the original Excodus equipment, but went for a JCM 800 model (which has been one of THE trash amps back in the days and Exodus' tone is pretty standard thrash) with a T808 MOD in front.
Click to expand...

Not exactly there, but you are definitely this close, a lot better than my own patch. By itself though, that's a pretty righteous thrash tone you got there man.

Downloaded your file. Will check it out and report.

Edit: Ok, tried to import your preset. Every block is empty, and there is no name showing at all on the LCD. To make sure everyting was fine, I imported Zappa's Eruption preset, and everyting was fine. I'm at the latest FW version.
 
Deltones said:
Edit: Ok, tried to import your preset. Every block is empty, and there is no name showing at all on the LCD.
Click to expand...
I used the Axe-Fx Editor which I never got my head around, especially the Preset Manager is something that I really don't understand. I'll check the patch and fix it, if neccessary.
 
The editor does that sometimes with some patches. Might be the age. Usually it saves alright, though, but screws up getting it into the Axe.
See if the editor will preview the preset and just store it using the front panel buttons.

Or use SendSX to send the preset in.
Both of you on 8.02 or later?
 
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