Help the Fight Against COVID-19

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The USA's director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases and a leading member on the White House Coronvirus Task Force has this to say:

 
The USA's director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases and a leading member on the White House Coronvirus Task Force has this to say:


The only peice of positive news in that article is that the doubling rate of hospitalizations has gone down from 2 days last week to 6 days now. Although I’m not sure how much of that is due to the strain on hospital beds
 
95 years old, beat COVID19 with chloroquine+zpac in Switzerland: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-swiss-survivor-idUSKBN21E2OW. Refused intubation too. What a badass.

Again, if something helped it was the antibiotic. Not the chloroquine. It wasn't even that effective in vitro ...

The head of the German Robert-Koch Institute commented this morning (source). I consider this an expert opinion.

  • "we need to expect that capacity of the health system will be insufficient, very clearly"
  • explains the fairly low German mortality rate in Germany with the high number of tests. Further states that the early cases were mostly people not at risk because the infection was brought in e.g. from skiing holidays. Expects this to change, once more infections occur in nursing homes and hospitals.
  • warns that a situation as in Italy is possible
  • warns that "Germany is still at the beginning of the wave" and states that from a medical point of view, he wishes to practice social distancing for as long as possible. People should take the pandemic "very very seriously".

Prof. Wieler is great in handling this situation.
 
I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised if Trump replaces him.
A common refrain from me when an engineer asks, "Who should I have review my engineering design?" is always, "Who is the designs biggest detractor? Find them. Have them review it." There is much to be learned when you surround yourself with varying points of view.
 
Mods:

Is there a clearer definition of the 'no politics' rule? It's seems to be a bit grey and I've had stuff removed
that I thought would fit in the grey but then see somewhat similar posts slide.
It would be helpful in this thread since that subject is so entwined with Covid-19.

Thank you.
 
A common refrain from me when an engineer asks, "Who should I have review my engineering design?" is always, "Who is the designs biggest detractor? Find them. Have them review it." There is much to be learned when you surround yourself with varying points of view.
speaking of which, a few hours ago, a post that consisted basically of Trump quotes was deleted by moderators.
Could you please review this? It was mostly factual information, with one added line that I wouldn't find objectionable, objectively (regardless whether or not I agree with its content, which I strongly do)

Mods:

Is there a clearer definition of the 'no politics' rule? It's seems to be a bit grey and I've had stuff removed
that I thought would fit in the grey but then see somewhat similar posts slide.
It would be helpful in this thread since that subject is so entwined with Covid-19.

Thank you.
Exactly that. I was thinking a while on this before replying ("think before you type").
 
The level of inaction and incompetence by the Federal govt. is astounding.

Two short years ago the CDC was among the most respected and competent institutions in the federal government. But the White House's hostile attitude towards science has served to drive good people out of the federal government and silence the ones who remain. The Hurricane Dorian Alabama incident was a watershed moment that signaled the end of rational discourse on scientific matters in the White House. The way the CDC's response to Covid-19 testing devolved into a Three Stooges routine was the inevitable consequence.
 
The level of inaction and incompetence by the Federal govt. is astounding.
That’s really what the biggest issue is, it seems to me.

We don’t really actually know what is going globally, and I am talking about the movie extremes of like CIA and MI5 and Mossad at the highest levels of government I mean, despite our access to information, journalistic exposes, local information [or disinformation] garnered from individuals.

We like to think we do (either by “staying informed,” or watching CNN or Fox), staying abreast of the president and governors updates, federally and municipally - BUT we don’t really know what the hell is happening, that’s just the nature of government, partially for national security and also because the masses shouldnt and can’t know the full scale picture because people might do something stupid, (again, extreme case scneario would be reverting to tribalism on some level)

I think what it basically comes down to is what Cliff succinctly said ^ The Federal govt ineptitude is astounding. It just so happens its a republican incompetent, sorry, ahem, republican incumbent lol, but just think, if Hillary was in office and this happened, I think the entire middle of the country, farmers, truckers, herders, would all say “Adios and Sayonara New York and LA, Were keeping the food stuff to ourselves, y’all can fend for yourselves or import it from china like ya always do......, y’all come back now y’hear?” So despite the governmetal response, i think we are seeing a beautiful social response from American citizens, particularly the professionals keeping us alive, both in the medical field as well as the heartland.

Now, while I might lean right(conservative/republican), I dont care about party affiliation at all, especially because no politician actually encapsulates any one party absolute majority/consensus anymore and at this point, who cares??

PS This probably will get cut because My posts sometimes get censored/deleted, but why is stating a factual statement about China/communist regimes taboo? I’m not being a smart ass when I ask if the Chinese govt and nation doesnt care to put Americans at risk, especially for the sake of Profit, why is that a sensitive issue [when it has nothing to do with Chinese-Americans or take out/delivery? Like why are we as Americans so “sensitive” when our health is now at risk due to unethical, immoral, sinful, evil foreigners? Or is that like too politically charge to ask as well? I dont think it is, but then again, it seems people on high disagree with me]
 
@BaronVonGrim:
It's a Chinese virus... man made.
Supposing that you're correct, what should be done about it? Are you proposing war?

Their reaction time to it was too fast... No element of surprise to them...
Respectfully, I disagree.

Look at it from their perspective: It hammers a big city in their industrial base. It happens in near-proximity to one of their own biowarfare labs, leading the world to immediately ask the question whether they incompetently let one of their own biowarfare bugs escape! It wasn't predicted, but reacted-to, and initially by trying to silence anyone who raised the alarm. ("Shushing" is a sign of embarrassment.) People died, and some of the government reaction (welding people into their apartments!) looks obviously ham-handed and jerry-rigged.

If you're familiar with the...um. To say "Asian mind" is generalizing too broadly and failing to differentiate between Korea, Japan, and China, let alone provincial subsets within the Chinese population. So let's not say "Asian," broadly. But there is a cultural template at play in the Chinese leadership which had predecessors in Imperial culture both in China and Japan, and which is exaggerated since the communist revolution. It takes the form of wanting to avoid confusion and embarrassment in order to stave off any slightest hint that they have lost control, for if that happens, it means a catastrophic loss of legitimacy and authority to rule. (Look up the phrase "mandate of Heaven" if you want to dig into this.)

Look, people in China don't love being eavesdropped on all the time. They don't love having bribe-hungry local aparatchicks telling them what to do. But they make a deal with the leadership to keep their heads down so long as the leadership keeps providing prosperity and looks like it's got a clue, is in control, and is making things smooth. But if Xi and his apparatus lose control, or if they can't keep pork on the table, they look incompetent. If they're caught off-guard, they look confused. If they have egg on their face, they look like they can't keep it together.

They were already struggling with the consequences of the trade negotiations with the U.S.; after that came locusts (!) in the West and riots on the streets of Hong Kong. Then this. The whole population is feeling Xi lose the mandate of Heaven, in their bones. So he grips tighter, in response...will it work? Oh, probably. But this was in no way something Xi wanted.

Here's how it would have looked if it had been planned: The biowarfare attack would have happened in close proximity to someplace in the U.S., belonging to the U.S. government, like Fort Detrick. Or perhaps at Mar-a-Lago, if Xi thinks of Trump as a cult-of-personality leader (projection is a common cause of cultural misunderstanding). It would have been crafted to look like the U.S. screwed up. Here, it just looks like the Chinese leadership screwed up, or at best, the Chinese culture of wet markets.

No, no, the outbreak didn't make Xi happy at all. ("Oh, bother....")

Now, are some players in that regime nasty enough that, once it was happening, they'd make a special effort to spread it worldwide? You know: to ensure that everybody got equally hammered by it, rather than just China? Sure, I could buy that, if there were specific evidence. After Tiananmen Square the whole world knows that they would do it, if it occurred to them and they got their ducks in a row fast enough before it spread worldwide naturally. But we have no specific evidence. It's more likely that it spread worldwide naturally long before they had a chance to take action to artificially up the growth. Bureaucracies, as a rule, are not nimble.

...they brought it up right away... while blaming US military games.
Yes, but not even their own population believes that. The fact that the lie is so transparent, clumsy, crude, and hilarious suggests that they were improvising. They had to make up some crap on-the-fly, which means it wasn't a carefully-plotted stratagem.

Again, if they'd wanted to make themselves look good and the U.S. look bad, it'd have been easy enough to make it break out in the U.S. rather than China, and then have China magnanimously provide protective gear and masks to the poor, foolish, obviously-in-decline U.S.A. whose strategic stockpile of protective garb was reduced from billions of units to hundreds of thousands way back in 2009 over H1N1, and never rebuilt (!) in all the years (!!) thereafter.

That would have enriched Chinese industry, and made America look foolish and incompetent. It would have been so much better a move, that it highlights just how comparatively bad, how counter-productive, the COVID-19 pandemic has been for China, if it was intentional.

Let's put it this way: If some junior military planner ever did come to Xi trying to sell the plan, "Hey, let's punish the U.S. by letting loose an engineered virus in a wet market half-a-mile from the lab where we built it, in one of our profitable manufacturing zones...," then I guarantee you that kid's organs are now for sale, mixed in with the usual lot of Uighurs and Falun Gong. (All but the brain tissue. After producing such a plan, that brain would be deemed too suspect for reuse.)

The US is obviously responding to this in the matter of national security. The flatten the curve strategy is one that allows the virus to flush through at controlled measures until heard immunity or a vaccine is achieved.
You make that sound as if the flatten-the-curve strategy was selected by us from some long list of available options. I disagree; from the moment this thing got started, it was our only play. A virus this infectious will be with us forever, with annual outbreaks like the flu, unless a vaccine is found. Without a vaccine, five years from now there will be no single homo sapiens on earth that hasn't had it.

That's a done deal; the only question is how do we transition to the new normal in the smoothest, least-destructive way possible. The only option was to buy time to get tests and treatments and to prevent the overwhelming of the system.

So I don't see how this response screams "national security" any more than it screams "natural pandemic." We'd be trying to flatten the curve either way.

The rhetoric of the US is that of one that plays this as not only a made made virus, but as a possible preemptive attack.
I strongly disagree. Hmm. I don't want to get censored for political talk, but...your theory would seem to require that the current administration's personality be one of playing things close-to-the-vest, of euphemizing and obliquely hinting at things. Sorry, but I just don't see that as this administration's primary character trait, at all. "Letting it all hang out," in a kind of free-association way, is more the current style.

The rest, I don't feel I can reply to. I'm not perfectly sure what you're asserting.

But all that I've said above is a first-pass at why I think you're mistaken about this having been a planned, intentional move by China. I don't think that, and I don't think the current U.S. administration does, either.
 
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Two short years ago the CDC was among the most respected and competent institutions in the federal government. But the White House's hostile attitude towards science has served to drive good people out of the federal government and silence the ones who remain. The Hurricane Dorian Alabama incident was a watershed moment that signaled the end of rational discourse on scientific matters in the White House. The way the CDC's response to Covid-19 testing devolved into a Three Stooges routine was the inevitable consequence.

It possessed the appearance of competence because it never dealt with anything like this. Think the bureaucrats occupying the seats there are new? Nope ....
 
Two short years ago the CDC was among the most respected and competent institutions in the federal government. But the White House's hostile attitude towards science has served to drive good people out of the federal government and silence the ones who remain. The Hurricane Dorian Alabama incident was a watershed moment that signaled the end of rational discourse on scientific matters in the White House. The way the CDC's response to Covid-19 testing devolved into a Three Stooges routine was the inevitable consequence.
Sorry, but I have a bit of an inside track on the CDC and Emory Medical's Public Health, by two distinct avenues of vested interest. Both agree on this point: These organizations are not significantly different right now from what they were in 2010 and going forward. It is absolutely the truth that CDC fumbled for the first month-and-a-half in the current crisis. They would have done exactly the same had the crisis happened five or ten years earlier. (Perhaps earlier than that? I can't be sure: Nobody I know who knows those organizations from the inside has had such a long tenure.)

I think a big overhaul of how-to-react-to-an-epidemic will happen in the aftermath of the current one. Smart people are already talking about it right now, particularly in the context of state-by-state differentiation and public-private partnership. South Korea is on a lot of folks' minds.

But the stumbling in this crisis comes from a different source: For over a decade, supplies were allowed to run low, mission creep led to distraction, and much of the planning was historical in nature: The leadership were "preparing to fight the last war," and the "last war" wasn't envisioned so much in 1918 terms as in terms of Lyme disease, or Zika, or Dengue, or Ebola, or...that other thing in South America, I can't remember the name. If COVID-19 had taken the shape of those outbreaks, CDC would have been smooth in responding: That was what was on their minds.
 
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It possessed the appearance of competence because it never dealt with anything like this. Think the bureaucrats occupying the seats there are new? Nope ....

First, the chief of the CDC is absolutely a political appointment of the current administration. Second, the climate is now different among the career staff in the CDC after the Hurricane Dorian incident, which served to stifle scientific discourse within the adminstration. Look what happened to Dr. Fauci last week after his face palm while the President was speaking. He was banished from the press briefings for days afterwards. Third, the CDC has responded to many incidents over the years, and has always, until now, been a model of competence.
 
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