Helix update. Stacked snapshots - would be great for the FM3!

If I understand right, you'd be able to program the sequence of scene changes in any order you like e.g. from 1 to 7 to 3 to 8 to 2 to 1 to 2 and so on without being limited by the +1/-1 jumps currently implemented?

The only time I've seen this implemented is with Jordan Rudess from Dream Theater where he has all the PC changes for his rig mapped for any given song and he uses a simple BOSS FS to switch through them.

If that's how it could be implemented, then it would be HUGE!!!

If so, +1
 
brianv4 said:
As an example, you can't go from scene 1 to 3 to 2 to 7 with one footswitch but as I explained above, if you put your scenes in the order you need, it can be done with a single footswitch. This works on the FM3, FM9 and well as both of the FC's. Just use the Scene Manager in Edit to arrange your scenes.
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You can’t at the moment, but this is the wish, not many songs have more than 8 different sounds - we are managing at present with 8 scenes.
Instead of us choosing which scene we want next, this is ‘pre-programme ‘ per song by the order chosen to use the scenes….
 
Ugly Bunny said:
Actually, you can:

(Let's assume preset starts on scene 1)

FS1 Tap: Toggle scenes between 1 and 3, FS1 Hold: Toggle between scenes 2 and 7 :D

Start on scene 1, tap to go to scene 3, hold to go to scene 2, hold to go to scene 7, tap to go to scene 1, etc...

You can always reduce the hold time to make it more akin to a tap, but don't go too low :)

The FM3 has so many clever little tricks...
Click to expand...
Sure, you could do that. Seems rather cumbersome though. Why not simply use hold (or an external switch) to advance to the next 3 scenes?
 
AJ Vargas said:
If I understand right, you'd be able to program the sequence of scene changes in any order you like e.g. from 1 to 7 to 3 to 8 to 2 to 1 to 2 and so on without being limited by the +1/-1 jumps currently implemented?

The only time I've seen this implemented is with Jordan Rudess from Dream Theater where he has all the PC changes for his rig mapped for any given song and he uses a simple BOSS FS to switch through them.

If that's how it could be implemented, then it would be HUGE!!!

If so, +1
Click to expand...
Yes, this is essentially it…..
Programmed per song/preset.
It just means you press the same button to move you through the pre-prepared sequence, which marries the song structure - verse 1, chorus 1, verse 2, chorus 2, bridge, solo, verse 3, chorus 3, outro…
This song may need 5 scenes to get the tones, and then toggle through them in the order of the song with a single foot switch…
 
drnat said:
You can’t at the moment, but this is the wish, not many songs have more than 8 different sounds - we are managing at present with 8 scenes.
Instead of us choosing which scene we want next, this is ‘pre-programme ‘ per song by the order chosen to use the scenes….
Click to expand...
Yes, this is essentially it…..
Programmed per song/preset.
It just means you press the same button to move you through the pre-prepared sequence, which marries the song structure - verse 1, chorus 1, verse 2, chorus 2, bridge, solo, verse 3, chorus 3, outro…
This song may need 5 scenes to get the tones, and then toggle through them in the order of the song with a single foot switch…
Click to expand...
Then refer back to my original post.
 
AJ Vargas said:
If I understand right, you'd be able to program the sequence of scene changes in any order you like e.g. from 1 to 7 to 3 to 8 to 2 to 1 to 2 and so on without being limited by the +1/-1 jumps currently implemented?

The only time I've seen this implemented is with Jordan Rudess from Dream Theater where he has all the PC changes for his rig mapped for any given song and he uses a simple BOSS FS to switch through them.

If that's how it could be implemented, then it would be HUGE!!!

If so, +1
Click to expand...
As a Kronos owner myself, JR's FS works perfectly like that since the Kronos has a wonderful setlist function. where you can arrange your presets in any order - I think you get 128 setlists, each with 128 slots for Programs and Combis. If they implemented Setlists on the Fractal gear (which, to my understanding, they're working on) then this would be easy as hell.

Now, within those setlists, you're still tied to the order you put them in; the FS5U will inc/dec, but it won't jump around. In order to do that, you'd have to have some sort of MIDI or other controller that you program. I think that's my only hang-up with this idea is that no matter which way you cut it, it's going to take time programming (not a huge deal, of course; I program sets all the time in OnSong). Many people still don't use more than a few presets, let alone a preset for every song, let alone songs that have so many parts/sounds (more than 4) you'd need to program them with a function not currently on the device or capable using the built-in hardware (I demonstrate above how you can easily access up to 4 scenes in any order with one FS).

I'm all for flexibility, though, as someone who gigs as much as I do; I'm always looking for ways to simplify my rig for performance, even if it measn tons of extra work behind the scenes.
 
drnat said:
You can’t at the moment, but this is the wish, not many songs have more than 8 different sounds - we are managing at present with 8 scenes.
Instead of us choosing which scene we want next, this is ‘pre-programme ‘ per song by the order chosen to use the scenes….
Click to expand...

Personally...don't see the point unless we are talking about an additional setlist/gig feature which exists outside a preset (kinda like Kemper does things) as if you are dedicating a preset and the switching to a specific song, meaning that specific switching won't really work generically for any other song, just arrange the scenes in order using the Copy or Swap feature and use the FS to cycle though them.
 
Will Chen said:
Personally...don't see the point unless we are talking about an additional setlist/gig feature which exists outside a preset (kinda like Kemper does things) as if you are dedicating a preset and the switching to a specific song, meaning that specific switching won't really work generically for any other song, just arrange the scenes in order using the Copy or Swap feature and use the FS to cycle though them.
Click to expand...
If the song has more than 8 sections you can’t just cycle through them
You would need a pre-set per song with this idea though. Not so good for generic, kitchen sink presets I guess…..
 
brianv4 said:
Sure, you could do that. Seems rather cumbersome though. Why not simply use hold (or an external switch) to advance to the next 3 scenes?
Click to expand...
I"m not sure I follow; that's not cumbersome at all; it would take less than 20 seconds to set up entirely using a single on-board FS...

Oh! I think I see what you mean: you mean use hold to change views so the next three scenes are displayed in the mini displays, right, so you have instant access to them? I would tend to agree; I'm not thrilled with the idea of a button that moves sequentially through scenes for a live context, but I use it at home. My suggestion is just the fastest, easiest way to do it with a single FS (and, again, only takes a few seconds to set up entirely).

The easiest, most flexible way to do it, IMO, is just have access to the scenes you need via the three FS mini displays staring at your face :) I used to have mine set up so I had access to all 8 scenes via the three FS and not changing views, but then I started building smaller, more song-specific presets and now I have all I need in just the visible functions of the three FS; sometimes I don't even need more than one so I set them all the same.
 
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drnat said:
If the song has more than 8 sections
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You mean 8 different sections or more than 8 sections total? I can't think of a single song, with the exception of maybe some progressive metal bands' 30-minute multi-movement epics that would require 8 different sounds. This really isn't the FM3's strong point, anyway, to have so many sounds in a single preset. But if you're willing to change presets to get these 8 different sounds with a single footswitch, see my suggestion above :)
 
brianv4 said:
If you arrange your scenes in the order you need, you can already do this
View attachment 95900
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Agree…
It seems you still can work this in as is, if you really needed it now.

What’s the difference of reordering the scenes per preset then still increment by 1 vs setting up the switch increment order differently per preset? Maybe a little more work but same end result. Either way you still need to change something in the editor for each song. Am I missing something here?
 
drnat said:
If the song has more than 8 sections you can’t just cycle through them
You would need a pre-set per song with this idea though. Not so good for generic, kitchen sink presets I guess…..
Click to expand...

It appears a setlist function is coming anyway so it doesn't matter, but I don't know if I've ever heard a song which required 8 unique tones for 8 specific sections without any symmetry (sections not repeating in a pattern) which couldn't be handled by the current switching, but there's always outliers. For example, a song like Pull Me Under by Dream Theater (oldie but goodie) has many sections, but really only uses 3 tones: clean with chorus, high gain, and boosted lead. Even modern prog groups like Plini or Arch Echo typically have very complex arrangements but tend to use 3 or 4 specific guitar tones max per song.
 
Modern prog groups, or modern groups period, often play to a click track and rely on a sequencer to control preset and scene changes via midi. I would think if you're playing songs complex enough that 8 sequential scene steps is insufficient, you should probably consider a rig like that.
 
GlennO said:
Modern prog groups, or modern groups period, often play to a click track and rely on a sequencer to control preset and scene changes via midi. I would think if you're playing songs complex enough that 8 sequential scene steps is insufficient, you should probably consider a rig like that.
Click to expand...
Yep. This is how Petrucci does it.
 
Ugly Bunny said:
You mean 8 different sections or more than 8 sections total? I can't think of a single song, with the exception of maybe some progressive metal bands' 30-minute multi-movement epics that would require 8 different sounds. This really isn't the FM3's strong point, anyway, to have so many sounds in a single preset. But if you're willing to change presets to get these 8 different sounds with a single footswitch, see my suggestion above :)
Click to expand...
More than 8 sections, not more than 8 tones.
If have 3 verses and choruses, that is 6 sections, with likely 2 tones. Add in a solo, bridge, intro/outro. The number of times they are repeated and the order isn’t an issue then…..would same the toe dancing of more scenes, going back etc….just tap on the single button!
 
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