Having trouble breaking out of my funk...

X

X14Halo

Inspired
Basically all that I know right now is a couple positions of the minor pentatonic scale, and 1 or 2 positions of the phrygian mode - I can't seem to break out of it. Whenever I practice, I throw on a d minor backing track (I am playing in drop D), and I just jam up and down the scales that I know. Everything that I play always ends up sounding the same. I know that the obvious answer is to learn new modes and scales...I will start that but then I either completely forget it all the next day, or I fail to realize how to utilize these new scales and modes effectively (like harmonic minor for example). Any help would be appreciated.
 
Buy a new guitar, Dinny ever play fifths. Pick a random Sim each day and see what happens. Learn a new chord a day and use it as much as possible. I used to learn the rules to follow them but then I learned that they were there to be broken. My learning has slowed buy has taken shoo much more meaning
 
If you are comfortable with the minor pentatonic, just move it down 3 frets and you've got a major pentatonic, more of a country sound over a major chord. If you know major scales in all keys, you can start playing over ii-v-I changes, more of a jazz perspective. Once you have that down, you can start adding the 5 outside notes, and in time you'll be able to use all 12 notes wherever you want. I wouldn't spend too much time on modes, it complicates things unnecessarily.
Lot of good websites, among them jbguitarworkshop.com. Sometimes just listening to a different genre helps to re focus.
 
You already know what's holding you back... walking in the same circle. A few ideas:

Stop using that same backing track and move to something that will require you to play something different to work. Avoid that Dm stuff like the plague for a bit so you'll get the new sounds "in your ear."

Go to a style of music that isn't conducive to minor pentatonics like major scale country or something similar. You'll find it's a very small jump from minor based to major based scales but the "feel" of the sound is really different.

Taking smaller steps away from the familiar is a great way to be able to integrate the new sounds into what you already do well. This way you're building vocabulary while adding skills you can use right away. If you do that long enough, you'll find you've added quite a bit of room to roam in.
 
PaulS said:
If you know major scales in all keys, you can start playing over ii-v-I changes, more of a jazz perspective.
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Thanks guys. I will get going on learning the major scale all over the neck. I don't even know what a ii-v-I change is so I guess I'll start googling it!


Rick said:
Stop using that same backing track and move to something that will require you to play something different to work. Avoid that Dm stuff like the plague for a bit so you'll get the new sounds "in your ear."
Click to expand...

Yea, I guess the reason I have been sticking with minor stuff is because I mostly listen to rock and metal, and I don't ever see myself playing happy country music...but I see what you are saying and I will take your advice. That is also the reason I have been trying to learn phrygian and other minor modes...because I know those are what I WANT to be able to play.
 
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The modes are simple once you learn their whole and half step patterns.
Using the major mode Ionian as your starting point all other modes are just different starting points of the major scale.
The modes go - Ionian(major), Dorian, Phrygian, Lydian, Mixolydian, Aeolian(minor), and Locrian. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7,(8 is 1, a.k.a. an octave)
So based off of a Major scale(Ionian), 3 to 3, or 3 4 5 6 7 1(8) 2 3, is Phrygian. 2 to 2 would be Dorian, ect ect. Good break down.
The summary at 4.2 helps know what modes to use where (a little).

ii-V-I refers to the diatonic chord progression built off a particular key. The little ii shows that is a minor 2 chord, into a major 5 chord to a major 1 chord in what ever key you are in.
Diatonic major chord progression is -
1(Major) – 2(minor) – 3(minor) – 4(Major) – 5(Major) – 6(minor) – 7(diminished) OR
I – ii – iii – IV – V – vi – vii°

Diatonic minor chord progression is -
1(minor) - 2(diminished) - 3(Major) - 4(minor) - 5(minor) - 6(Major) - 7(Major) OR
i – ii° – III – iv – v – VI – VII
Just like the minor(Aeolian) is the 6th tone in the major(Ionian) scale, the same is true with the progression above. If you knew the major progression, then just counted 6 to 6, you will have the minor progression.
All this is based off of Triads. Triads give us chords and LOTS of other stuff.

Best thing you can do as a guitarist who wants to understand the ins and outs of music theory is not to just memorize the fingerings and patterns on the fretboard, learn the whole and half step patterns of the modes and their variations, like harmonic and melodic minor. That should give you quite a lot to work on. Just do one thing at a time.
Btw, my explanation probably is vague at best, so get to googling and good luck. :)
 
*techically* the III in a minor progression is augmented in classical theory... but both Major or Augmented are acceptable. :p

Minor Pentatonic is hard to break out of as it's an easy scale to hear in rock/pop music and even easier to apply. The best way to break out of it is to start paying attention to the actual chords of the progression and using them in their full glory. For instance, if you play a simple I, IV, V, start including 7's and 9's. Add the 2 and the 6 back into the pentatonic scale and now you know the full minor scale, or rather, you know the major scale starting on the 6th note.

Now check this out: Say you have a I, IV, V in G. That means you've got GMaj7, CMaj7, and D7. You'll notice something right away, going from the D7 to the GMaj7 doesn't sound bluesy anymore. It sounds like church music! When you play something over the top of it, your ear is going to want to use a major sound. So, play your pentatonic scale with the 2 and 6 back in at the 12th fret, which will sound MUCH more like G Major than E minor. You'll likely find yourself stopping on the 12th fret of the G string as well as the 15th fret of both E strings. Take that same shape and follow the chord progression, so when the G is being strummed, you're in your position at the 12th fret. When the progression changes to the CMaj7, move your pattern down the 5th fret, and to the 7th fret over the D. When you hit the D7, you'll need to lower the C# (the 2 in your minor pentatonic pattern), to a regular C.

This gets you to start thinking about the actual chords that are being used and simultaneously teaches you a thing or two about using modes to change keys while maintaining the strong tonality of the song.
 
Have you considered taking lessons? One of the best things about lessons is that paying for something can be a good motivator for actually putting in the effort and practice time to actually learn. That way you'll be less likely to "completely forget it all the next day." A teacher will also help show you how to "utilize these new scales and modes effectively." Teachers are also good at pointing out where your technique could use improvement.

After about a five year break from playing I decided to take lessons for the first time in over 20 years. I even went so far as to tell my teacher to treat me as a beginner and start over from the basics - let's just say it's been humbling...

There's so much info available out there, and if you are the type that learns well on your own, that's great, but some of the things you said make it seem like that hasn't been working that well for you, so lessons may be the way to go...
 
I think the best way to break out of a rut is repertoire..
you can learn all the theory, scale fingerings and techniques you like...
but it counts for very little if you can't apply them in a musical way...

learn songs, riffs, solos licks.... lots and lots of them...

and when you've learned something new, experiment with it..
and try to learn music that is outside of your native style too..
variety is a big deal..

by increasing your repertoire you'll automatically be working on technique because there will be hurdles to overcome..
you'll be learning in a musical way [which is much more fun and less sterile than going around and around exercises and scales]..
throw your theory knowledge at the new music you've learned so that you understand what's going on..
when you've nailed the new music, experimentation flexes creative muscle..
so you're actually practicing the art of being creative...

inside your head is a lake of creativity...
the better you know a single musical style the deeper it is in that area..
the more styles you know the wider it is..
when you write songs, riffs, solos etc, unknowingly you are drawing from the lake..
the wider and deeper the lake, the more you can draw upon..

make this lake as deep and as wide as you can...
but never forget to experiment with what you learn cos this is where the magic happens..
 
Funeral said:
The modes are simple once you learn their whole and half step patterns.
Using the major mode Ionian as your starting point all other modes are just different starting points of the major scale.
The modes go - Ionian(major), Dorian, Phrygian, Lydian, Mixolydian, Aeolian(minor), and Locrian. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7,(8 is 1, a.k.a. an octave)
So based off of a Major scale(Ionian), 3 to 3, or 3 4 5 6 7 1(8) 2 3, is Phrygian. 2 to 2 would be Dorian, ect ect. Good break down.
The summary at 4.2 helps know what modes to use where (a little).

ii-V-I refers to the diatonic chord progression built off a particular key. The little ii shows that is a minor 2 chord, into a major 5 chord to a major 1 chord in what ever key you are in.
Diatonic major chord progression is -
1(Major) – 2(minor) – 3(minor) – 4(Major) – 5(Major) – 6(minor) – 7(diminished) OR
I – ii – iii – IV – V – vi – vii°

Diatonic minor chord progression is -
1(minor) - 2(diminished) - 3(Major) - 4(minor) - 5(minor) - 6(Major) - 7(Major) OR
i – ii° – III – iv – v – VI – VII
Just like the minor(Aeolian) is the 6th tone in the major(Ionian) scale, the same is true with the progression above. If you knew the major progression, then just counted 6 to 6, you will have the minor progression.
All this is based off of Triads. Triads give us chords and LOTS of other stuff.

Best thing you can do as a guitarist who wants to understand the ins and outs of music theory is not to just memorize the fingerings and patterns on the fretboard, learn the whole and half step patterns of the modes and their variations, like harmonic and melodic minor. That should give you quite a lot to work on. Just do one thing at a time.
Btw, my explanation probably is vague at best, so get to googling and good luck. :)
Click to expand...

I didn't get a thing out of this ^^ BUT that's exactly what i wanna learn now !
Would you give me good links to understand what modes really are and how to learn them ?
 
I think the biggest prob folk have with modes is how they work them out...

the whole C Ionian, D Dorian, E, Phrygian etc thing..
yes this is a useful reference to figure out what the interval series is, but aurally it just sounds like C major being played from a different starting point each time.. so you just end up with an ear full of C..

once you know the interval series of each mode, working them out against the same tonic offers a better understanding of each mode's tonallity..

for example:
E Ionian [from E major], E Dorian [from D major], E Phrygian [from C major] etc..
so when playing / experimenting with each mode against the same bass note, you start hearing that Ionian is a major scale, Dorian is a minor scale with a major 6th, and so on..
this is when it all becomes a bit more meaningful to the ear..
 
clarky said:
I think the biggest prob folk have with modes is how they work them out...

the whole C Ionian, D Dorian, E, Phrygian etc thing..
yes this is a useful reference to figure out what the interval series is, but aurally it just sounds like C major being played from a different starting point each time.. so you just end up with an ear full of C..

once you know the interval series of each mode, working them out against the same tonic offers a better understanding of each mode's tonallity..

for example:
E Ionian [from E major], E Dorian [from D major], E Phrygian [from C major] etc..
so when playing / experimenting with each mode against the same bass note, you start hearing that Ionian is a major scale, Dorian is a minor scale with a major 6th, and so on..
this is when it all becomes a bit more meaningful to the ear..
Click to expand...

It took me a month to learn the patterns, a year to play them proficiently over a chord progression all over the fretboard in an improv situation, and several years to realize I was doing it all wrong and not actually changing modes. It wasn't until a piano player explained exactly what you are saying that I finally was able to HEAR the different modes.
 
I approach it from a different perspective. What has helped me, in addition to learning modes, scales, harmony, was to listen to songs on the radio (back in the day) and try to play the lead vocal melody on my guitar along with the singer. It taught me a lot about phrasing and melody; notes, and the spaces between the notes.
Good luck on your continued learning!

edit: this will not work with screamo! :)
 
Learn the 21 modes so that you not only know them diatonically, but that to the point where you can use the information. It's a great asset to know that a chord progression might be Lydian, it's even better to know that you can mix in Lydian Dominant or Lydian Augmented to spice things up. If you know your theory you can use 10 of the 12 notes effectively, instead of being endlessly stuck in the diatonic rut.
 
Oww, Dm is the saddest key of them all ...

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Sidivan said:
It took me a month to learn the patterns, a year to play them proficiently over a chord progression all over the fretboard in an improv situation, and several years to realize I was doing it all wrong and not actually changing modes. It wasn't until a piano player explained exactly what you are saying that I finally was able to HEAR the different modes.
Click to expand...

the thing with the modal stuff that gets interesting is when you use an approach known as 'melodic substitution'..
you may be soloing over a chord progression that's all in the same key, but you personally don't approach it that way..
you switch modes over different chords.. and even over the same chord.. so you're introducing additional tonality over the progression...
really spicing things up..
 
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