Has anyone transitioned from [Fractal -> FRFR] to [Fractal -> power amp > guitar speaker cabinets]?

[Rekster]

well if Dave says it, it must be correct - who am i to argue with Dave

Lol. Some people prefer it on. It might make sense for certain amp models even, but I usually leave it off for what I'm doing. I guess do whatever sounds best.

 

[dsouza]

I went from AX8 into tube vox ac10 and then transitioned into AX8 into a pair of Redsound Elis 8’s frfr loudspeakers and never looked back.

 

[ESW]

It was an email from Dave @ Fryette when I asked him about power amp modelling with LXII and AF3. He replied with: “PA modelling off.”

I guess that works for situations where you don't want or need power amp distortion? I mostly use the plexi and Hiwatt models, so I leave power amp modeling on.

 

[Jamme1961]

Go back and read old threads from longtime users who settled on their permanent solution that
ended up not being so permanent. It's VERY enlightening to see how that didn't last as long as
even they thought it would. Hmmmm......

I take most people's convictions about gear and what I should use with a grain of salt. Ok, less than
a grain of salt. It seems around here that those with the strongest convictions I have never actually
heard play. So they are disqualified almost immediately.

Add it all up and it means, I get to trust myself and my own ears. Who'd have imagined that???

It also means I don't chase the tails wagging on all the excited dogs around here.

You are so right - not just with fractal either — Update - I’m back to regular guitar speaker and also buying another EV - I need both

 

[mosola2]

I'm in the middle of the transition from FRFRs to poweramp + cabinet.
Over the years I've slowly reached higher in terms of quality (starting from a cheap FRFR and currently ending on a Red Sound MF10) but even now with one of the highly regarded FRFRs out there I've not really where I would like to be soundwise. So a month ago I got a cheap poweramp (Harley Benton GPA-100), a Celestion F12M-150 Triple Cone and an open back Blackstar 1x12 cab.
I must admit that the sound from the poweramp + cab is a more appealing sound to me - more amplike and not as 'artificial' as the FM10. I use the very same presets and the very same IRs and still I find the poweramp + cab a better solution for me.
I hope to be able to share a video on the subject soon.

 

[Mystic38]

I am not short of "FRFR" with Yamaha HS8, KRK VXT8 monitors and a Line 6 L2T PA cabinet.. and it sounded good in a "i hear a recorded guitar tone through small speakers" sort of way, with L2T>VXT8>>HS8. The L2T can give volume, extension and thump but always sounded/felt "off", I was perpetually tweaking output EQ and did not get the satisfaction I was looking for.

I began to use my Genz Streamliner 900 bass amp into a 212 V30 and then a 412 G12M cabinet and that was eye-opening.. I left power amp modeling on, and speaker modeling off, and while that did sound great, obviously my choice of speakers was limited (ie no models) so I began to explore the Guitar cab with full range speaker, in my case the F12-x200 so that my range of amp/cab models can be extended ..cos why not.

This is at the so far, so good stage. This cab is a PRS open back cab, so there is no tuning and i use some output eq to tame the cab/floor/room interaction, but otherwise its flat and always sounds decent with stock presets. Looking forward, being a speaker designer in the past, I have some experiments and some plans to follow through on, the first being to take my Streamliner 900 out of the path and make the cabinet self powered...and hopefully keep the musicality & feel of my GB900

 

[jamesblonde]

Oh yeah. I started off with a Friedman ASC-10, then got a Xitone, then a CLR, then a second CLR for a stereo pair. After a couple of years of that, I tried out a Seymour Duncan Powerstage 170 through one of my cabs and thought it was a significant improvement over FRFR. A few months later I got a Fryette LX-II and that was it. I dialed in all of my presets for the cab and stopped the endless cycle of tweaking. It's been about a year now and I'm still happy with it.

What cab are you running the fryette through?

 

[ESW]

What cab are you running the fryette through?

It's a Reeves 1x12 made by Port City, and I have an old Pulsonic Fane in it. I'm thinking about ordering a pair of Zilla cabs for stereo, but I haven't sorted out exactly what I want yet.

 

[Sixstring]

It was an email from Dave @ Fryette when I asked him about power amp modelling with LXII and AF3. He replied with: “PA modelling off.”

That's an interesting thought, The interaction of the power amp and speaker would be there but what of the character of the power section? Fryette power amps are supposed to be pretty neutral! and in that situation it would seem that the resulting sound would be pretty sterile or not take on the characteristics of the power section in the amp sim you have chosen.

 

[79_limited]

I have tried quite a bit. Original Atomic Reactors, Atomic CLR, Accugrovee large Equator monitors, Focal monitors even Seismic PA monitors.

Depends on your main use. For home recording good studio monitors are my go to. Man oh man I’m saving up for those Dutch and Dutch 8c monitors for the studio after demoing them but $12k!

However, for live and jamming with a band it’s a different story.

While FRFR was convenient I never could get that “icepick” sound out of the high end no matter what I tried. I guess just too hifi?

I tried a few power amps into a cab over the years (Matrix GT1000, Atomic 50/50, Fryette PS-2) and finally fell in love with this:

Fryette LXII into a cool but rare Vox JMI AC10 (2x10) open back and mid 80’s Marshall 1965A (4X10). What’s amazing about the AXE III is I can run dual mono, stereo, or wet/dry with the routing flexibility.

The band I was playing in heard the FRFR for the first few rehearsals but after I made the switch they were like holy sh^it.

After reading that the guitarist for Stone Temple Pilots has played a similar setup since Day 1 (Vox AC30 and Marshall cab) powered I believe by VHT power amps.

I’ve seen STP live three times over the years (last summer the most recent) and his sound has been great and consistent. If it’s not broke don’t fix it. I’m not really trying to copy that sound but it has always stood out to me.

It’s hard to describe but running one cab for the clarity and the other for the crunch is awesome. Again with the AXEIII it’s easy to switch things up between the Vox and Marshall.

Only downside with the AXEIII and LXII is it takes a 4U rolling back and it’s heavy. It also takes some planning so you can plug and unplug quickly.

 

[mosola2]

For anyone interested I did this video - a comparison between the Red Sound MF10 and a poweramp + Celestion F12M-150 Triple Cone-solution in a semiopen cabinet.
I'm actually very impressed with the Celestion speaker; it sounds more full and is much more amp like whereas I find the MF10 to be a bit too boxy sounding. I'm more likely to go that route and to let the FM10 go.

 

[Ledvedder]

I've been killing myself trying to decide if I wanna go FRFR since I got my FM9. I've tried it through my Fryette Power Station into my Suhr 2x12 cab, and it sounds good. But, one of my main reasons for getting the FM9 was to make gigging so much more convenient by lugging less equipment. The FM9 and an FRFR solution seems so much more convenient. I'm looking at a few different FRFR cabs (Xitone mbritt 112, Red Sound MF10, Red Sound Elis8). Some say the MF10 is great, others say it's too boxy sounding. Some say the Xitone is great, others say it's too woofy and bassy. The Celestion solution seems interesting too! Maybe with a smaller power amp, something like an SD PS170? Ugh, I don't know which way to go.

 

[ESW]

I've been killing myself trying to decide if I wanna go FRFR since I got my FM9. I've tried it through my Fryette Power Station into my Suhr 2x12 cab, and it sounds good. But, one of my main reasons for getting the FM9 was to make gigging so much more convenient by lugging less equipment. The FM9 and an FRFR solution seems so much more convenient. I'm looking at a few different FRFR cabs (Xitone mbritt 112, Red Sound MF10, Red Sound Elis8). Some say the MF10 is great, others say it's too boxy sounding. Some say the Xitone is great, others say it's too woofy and bassy. The Celestion solution seems interesting too! Maybe with a smaller power amp, something like an SD PS170? Ugh, I don't know which way to go.

Some folks here have been waiting over a year for delivery of their pre-paid Xitones, so you may want to look at more readily available options. Everybody has different opinions about this stuff. You just have to try things and see what you like. I had a pair of CLRs for a while, and a Xitone and a Friedman ASC-10. Of the three, I liked the CLRs best - but I dropped all of them and went to a power amp and cab. If I were going the FRFR route again, I'd skip the whole 'FRFR guitar cabinet' thing and go directly to proper PA speakers from a major manufacturer that are readily available and easily repairable/replaceable.

IMHO, the ultimate FRFR solution is not having to bring anything but your guitar and Fractal - just plugging into someone else's PA.

 

[Rekster]

I've been killing myself trying to decide if I wanna go FRFR since I got my FM9. I've tried it through my Fryette Power Station into my Suhr 2x12 cab, and it sounds good. But, one of my main reasons for getting the FM9 was to make gigging so much more convenient by lugging less equipment. The FM9 and an FRFR solution seems so much more convenient. I'm looking at a few different FRFR cabs (Xitone mbritt 112, Red Sound MF10, Red Sound Elis8). Some say the MF10 is great, others say it's too boxy sounding. Some say the Xitone is great, others say it's too woofy and bassy. The Celestion solution seems interesting too! Maybe with a smaller power amp, something like an SD PS170? Ugh, I don't know which way to go.

I don't understand how you would be lugging less equipment?

Right now you have FM9->Fryette Power Station-> Suhr cab
If you replace the Suhr cab with a FRFR cab all you are eliminating is the Fryette, which isn't much to lug around?

 

[Ledvedder]

I don't understand how you would be lugging less equipment?

Right now you have FM9->Fryette Power Station-> Suhr cab
If you replace the Suhr cab with a FRFR cab all you are eliminating is the Fryette, which isn't much to lug around?

Well, I'd actually like to go to something either 1x12 or 1x10.

 

[Rekster]

Well, I'd actually like to go to something either 1x12 or 1x10.

Ah, I see so reduce to a 1 speaker cabinet instead. Which would reduce weight as well.

Everyone has their own opinions and experiences but I have two XiTone passive wedges collecting dust right now because I was tired of constantly tweaking presets to make them sound usable. As I believe I said earlier in this thread I went back to a regular guitar cabinet and a tube power amp and I rarely have to tweak now as most of my presets just automatically sound good.

 

[toneseeker911]

Ah, I see so reduce to a 1 speaker cabinet instead. Which would reduce weight as well.

Everyone has their own opinions and experiences but I have two XiTone passive wedges collecting dust right now because I was tired of constantly tweaking presets to make them sound usable. As I believe I said earlier in this thread I went back to a regular guitar cabinet and a tube power amp and I rarely have to tweak now as most of my presets just automatically sound good.

What cab are you using ?

 

[woodbutcher65]

I have always, since literally day one with my Axe-FX, run it into a small stereo power amp and from there to a stereo Avatar cabinet equipped with a pair of Celestion Greenbacks. I have never run FRFR speakers with it. Of course this means I don't use IRs.

I have the capability to run into full range speakers, I just don't.

I've found that FRFR speakers and IRs may give you a specific cabinet sound at a distance, but it does not feel the same at all when playing in close proximity to the equipment. If you rely on controlled and interactive feedback for part of your sound, you will get radically different results when going the FRFR route vs. using guitar cabinets. Definitely I prefer using guitar cabinets. It isn't even a contest.

 

[Sorenspete]

I have always, since literally day one with my Axe-FX, run it into a small stereo power amp and from there to a stereo Avatar cabinet equipped with a pair of Celestion Greenbacks. I have never run FRFR speakers with it. Of course this means I don't use IRs.

I have the capability to run into full range speakers, I just don't.

I've found that FRFR speakers and IRs may give you a specific cabinet sound at a distance, but it does not feel the same at all when playing in close proximity to the equipment. If you rely on controlled and interactive feedback for part of your sound, you will get radically different results when going the FRFR route vs. using guitar cabinets. Definitely I prefer using guitar cabinets. It isn't even a contest.

Thanks for your input. The more I play my HS8's the more I feel as though traditional guitar cabinets would suit my use case.

 

[Andy Eagle]

Backwards and forwards all the time. I have settled (put up with) a Matrix GT100FX 2U and go between cabs. I have Mesa Thielie, Mesa 2x12 recto, Marshall vintage 30 1960B stereo and a pair of Xitone passives loaded with F12 X200s. All the classD FRFR feel like sh#t, even the ones that sound good don't provide the response I want. I do also regularly use tube amps so I am reminded of what FRFR mostly can't do.