Guitar cab vs FRFR?

minseito

minseito

Member
Hi all,

This one is directed towards anyone who has experience of the cab sims.

Do they really make that much difference to the overall tone/sound? I am usng a Matrix power amp and a regular guitar cab, also Matrix - NL212 - [on the Axe I have power amp modelling on / cab sims off, of course] but I just don't seem to be able to get those warm creamy tones that seem to be all over the place in the demos. I'm wondering if it could have something to do with the fact that I don't have FRFR and so can't really use the cab sims.

It's probably just my crass inability to dial in decent settings, but I thought I'd ask the question just to see if anyone has an opinion on it one way or another.

Thanks for reading!
 
IMO, using regular guitars cabs with an Axe FX limits what you can do with it. There are literally thousands of IRs available to can quickly and easily change your tone radically that you are omitting from your sonic palette.

Some folks prefer regular guitar cabs over FRFR for one reason or another but I find using the IRs liberating.
 
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minseito said:
Hi all,

This one is directed towards anyone who has experience of the cab sims.

Do they really make that much difference to the overall tone/sound? I am usng a Matrix power amp and a regular guitar cab, also Matrix - NL212 - [on the Axe I have power amp modelling on / cab sims off, of course] but I just don't seem to be able to get those warm creamy tones that seem to be all over the place in the demos. I'm wondering if it could have something to do with the fact that I don't have FRFR and so can't really use the cab sims.

It's probably just my crass inability to dial in decent settings, but I thought I'd ask the question just to see if anyone has an opinion on it one way or another.

Thanks for reading!
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You won't ever be able to accurately copy a recorded tone with a real guitar cabinet.
On the other hand you won't ever be able to copy a real cab in the room with FRFR.
You should be able to get great tones either way but if you want the sound from the demos you hear you will want to use the same speakers you heard the demo on.
 
A "real" cab (Stereo 2x12s) user here ... after 18 months, seriously considering FRFR. Just can't decide on the size of the drivers (read as: achieve SPL to get "in the room" feel) - Might do both (small FRFR monitors and large FRFR depending on time and $$$).

I have come to the place for me that I want more sonic color capabilities (over what V30s can do). And, I realize it lies in Impulse Responses.
 
From my experience FRFR sounds great at home but as soon as you start to play at band volume over a loud drummer it gets really hard to find a tone Im happy with . The 'brown' fat plexi sounds I gravitate towards seem to get lost in the mix and if you take out the bass to cut through with the mids it looses bottom end. Real cabs seem to work better for me in a live playing situation. But I would still want the FRFR signal to go out to front of house if using a PA. So you basically end up with a bit of a compromise, but if you are going through the PA at least you will get a stellar sound.

I have the matrix FR212 and I have been very tempted to get their NL212 to replace my marshall 1936 cab for my real cab when playing live. Alternatively I might stick a creamback 65 or 75 (which is apparently like a lot greenback) in the cab to get some more bottom end. When I have tried 4x12s at practice rooms they seem to sound a lot fatter than the 1936 cab (which has a CL80 and V30 in).

Alas the quest for perfect tone never ends..
 
.l use with end-valvular mesa 2: the second is 2:50 simul class, as speakers have a mesa 4x12 that I use in the rehearsal room and in stereo, plus 2 2x12 and two mesa mesa 1x 12 depending on the size of places and local I go to play, nn take off the emulation cash using the same simulation, I can tell you to have a fantastic sound ... I recently did a live using AX with fr speaker system, I can say came out a beautiful sound, to see the hot differences I remade 'another live yesterday with the old set-up (described above and the final speakers, I must tell you that I harbor more weight with the final valve; loooong more ... but has something more -a sound level hot ... the color of the valve ... that to me in 40 years has stayed with me ...... I love real cab .
 
I used to prefer a power amp and guitar cab over FRFR but over the last year or so I have changed my opinion and now prefer FRFR. Not sure if this is due to changes in the firmware or maybe just due to finding the right IR.
 
To me, the IR is such a major aspect of what creates the tone, that I feel like I'm not really using this device to its true potential unless I have the cab sims on. Having said that, go with your ears as always. Some of the most interesting sounds were created by people not following the "right" method:
 
jonhep said:
From my experience FRFR sounds great at home but as soon as you start to play at band volume over a loud drummer it gets really hard to find a tone Im happy with . The 'brown' fat plexi sounds I gravitate towards seem to get lost in the mix and if you take out the bass to cut through with the mids it looses bottom end. Real cabs seem to work better for me in a live playing situation. But I would still want the FRFR signal to go out to front of house if using a PA. So you basically end up with a bit of a compromise, but if you are going through the PA at least you will get a stellar sound.
Click to expand...

Is it possible that the real cabs you use just happen to be better suited for live band situations than the IR's you've been choosing? Maybe the answer is less in the EQing that you've been trying than in the IR selection. So it might be better if you'd pick an IR that just cuts through better in a band situation?
 
Thank you for all the replies, opinions and advice. The dreaded finances mean that I have to stick with a Matrix 212NL and a 1936 Marshall for now. But, as has been pointed out here and elsewhere, the Axe is so versatile that I ought to be able to get what I want whatever the set up.......As jonhep said above, 'Alas the quest for perfect tone never ends..'
 
I still use both at the same time (Power amp & cab, plus FRFR direct to FOH & monitors). I only use one IR and that's the one I shot of my own cab. Now, to to die-hard FRFR users, that may seem a little resctictive, but what it does do is echo precisely to the FOH the sound I'm getting on stage. Also, another way of looking at it is, any normal guitarist who plays using an amp/cab and a few pedals, has the same cab sound all the time, and even many Axe users only use one amp model for everything. So just because there are zillions of cab IR's available, it doesn't mean you should be using them all.
 
I used to have the same opinion that frfr sounded great until it's really cranked up. With new firmware and maybe better ir choice this no longer the case. The other guitar player in my band plays through a 4x12. My tone is better in the room and way better to FOH. The new Ownhammer players pack irs kill.
 
I just go through the stage monitors for the band. So all I bring to the gig is my AX8 and a couple guitars. Sounds great on stage and makes load in and load out much easier.
 
bdrepko said:
I just go through the stage monitors for the band. So all I bring to the gig is my AX8 and a couple guitars. Sounds great on stage and makes load in and load out much easier.
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When I was playing larger venues, I never trusted the sound crew to be in total control of my stage level. Perhaps it was because the bands were large and vocal-oriented with a lot of singers. My guitar never got much attention during sound check and we ALWAYS ran short of monitor channels. I never felt safe w/o my own stage amp so if I found my monitor mix was screwed during the set, at least I had my amp.

These days, I'm playing much smaller situations. In one band, I double on bass, in the other I double on keys and mandolin. I'm currently using a Roland KC300 keyboard amp for the Axe/FX II, since it's something I already had long before acquiring the Fractal. So far, I like the results.
 
jonhep said:
From my experience FRFR sounds great at home but as soon as you start to play at band volume over a loud drummer it gets really hard to find a tone Im happy with.
Click to expand...


Totally agree with jonhep, I have a matrix Q12 which sounds great at home but not in gig situation, it just sounds harsh and flubby which is a shame. I have used the Q12 in shows (where it has been on the floor pointing up to be, and I am sitting down) and it worked very well and sounded good, but when used as a backline (no FOH) as a direct replacement to my real cab it just does not work, which is a shame but it just doesn't.
Does anyone use a Q12 as backline?
 
As others have mentioned, IRs are one of the biggest factors. I have flipped thru IRs on my unit and heard awesome tones right next to bland tones. I use the Friedman ASM-12 FRFR cab and absolutely love it. Sounds like a guitar cab to me. I don't gig so unfortunately I can't comment on that but I imagine it kills at gigs too.

I had a Matrix NL12 and was not a fan. I sent it back or sold it (can't remember) after a few weeks. Just couldn't jive with it. With that said, loved the GT1000FX and have heard great things about some of the other cabs. That one just didn't do it for me.
 
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