Granular Delay Effect

[tlainhart]

I'd love to see the Axe-FX do something like granular synthesis as an effect, where the input signal is granulated and transformed. With the Ultra's DSP and Cliff's programming chops this feels like a natural. One argument against is that it takes the Axe away from the traditional amp and fx box. An argument for is that the pitch shifter, looper, synth and studio quality delays, verbs and compressor already place us on that path.

Something like this VST is what I had in mind: KTGranulator (http://koen.smartelectronix.com/KTGranulator/).

 

[scarr]

I changed "Synthesis" to "Delay", because as I pointed out before, this isn't granular synthesis we're talking about, but granular processing of a delay line. I just want to make sure the goal is clear. Granular synthesis involves having tables for signal generation and other stuff that is well beyond the scope of a guitar processor. Granular delay, on the other hand, is a very cool idea!

For those who don't want to read about it, this sample (via tlainhart's link) quickly demonstrates what the effect sounds like with the sputtering echoes at the beginning of the piece: http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_so ... gID=416476

 

[javajunkie]

I like this concept.

 

[AlbertA]

I think the crystals already so something similar.

 

[tlainhart]

I changed "Synthesis" to "Delay", because as I pointed out before, this isn't granular synthesis we're talking about, but granular processing of a delay line. I just want to make sure the goal is clear. Granular synthesis involves having tables for signal generation and other stuff that is well beyond the scope of a guitar processor. Granular delay, on the other hand, is a very cool idea!

So scarr, are you saying that the KTGranulator effect is not really synthesis? Reading the description, it says this:

It works like this: incoming (mono) sound is fed into a delay line from which small pieces of various durations and at different moments in the past are selected. Each of these pieces is then amplified, transposed and enveloped to form a "grain". Each grain is also randomly panned and the whole mix is sent out to a stereo output stream. Feedback of the grain output back into the delay line is also provided, and the delay line can also be frozen so that the grains are only taken from what is currently stored in the delay line.

That's the idea that I had (or that I'm suggesting). I don't know enough about this genre to use the terms precisely, but I know that this tool generates a nice effect when fed a guitar signal, esp. one with diffuse delay w/ no attack (e.g. ambient-style).

 

[VegaBaby]

I've been doing stuff like that since years...just not with the Axe :lol: .

Would be awesome to have that. As for an example I didn't think it was too representative (not used very musical). Anyone wanting to hear it done properly, listen to any BT record. He's the true master of granular use.

 

[javajunkie]

I think the crystals already so something similar.

you didn't listen to the soundclick link that scar gave, did you

I don't think the crystals algo can do that. Not a great example but it shows you how it different from the ambient examples.

 

[VegaBaby]

I think the crystals already so something similar.

you didn't listen to the soundclick link that scar gave, did you

I don't think the crystals algo can do that. Not a great example but it shows you how it different from the ambient examples.

+1

The crystals have nothing to do with it whatsoever. Entirely different effect.

 

[scarr]

I changed "Synthesis" to "Delay", because as I pointed out before, this isn't granular synthesis we're talking about, but granular processing of a delay line. I just want to make sure the goal is clear. Granular synthesis involves having tables for signal generation and other stuff that is well beyond the scope of a guitar processor. Granular delay, on the other hand, is a very cool idea!

So scarr, are you saying that the KTGranulator effect is not really synthesis? Reading the description, it says this:

It works like this: incoming (mono) sound is fed into a delay line from which small pieces of various durations and at different moments in the past are selected. Each of these pieces is then amplified, transposed and enveloped to form a "grain". Each grain is also randomly panned and the whole mix is sent out to a stereo output stream. Feedback of the grain output back into the delay line is also provided, and the delay line can also be frozen so that the grains are only taken from what is currently stored in the delay line.

That's the idea that I had (or that I'm suggesting). I don't know enough about this genre to use the terms precisely, but I know that this tool generates a nice effect when fed a guitar signal, esp. one with diffuse delay w/ no attack (e.g. ambient-style).

Correct. Since it uses "incoming sound", it's a processor, not a synthesizer. A synthesizer generates sound with oscillators. To put it another way, a granular synthesizer could make noise without a guitar. The effect can't, because it chops up the input to make the output. Without an input, it's chopping up zeros and thus outputting nothing.

 

[AlbertA]

I think the crystals already so something similar.

you didn't listen to the soundclick link that scar gave, did you

I don't think the crystals algo can do that. Not a great example but it shows you how it different from the ambient examples.

+1

The crystals have nothing to do with it whatsoever. Entirely different effect.

You are talking about the end result. I wasn't. I was talking about the underlaying technical implementation. Which believe it or not it's not an "entirely" different effect.

 

[FractalAudio]

The crystals effect is, in fact, a specific application of granular synthesis (or delay, if you will). The reordering is just exactly backwards.

All the pitch effects in the Axe-Fx use granular processing, as opposed to STFT or other frequency domain techniques.

 

[VegaBaby]

I think we got mixed up here with endresults and how to achieve certain effects soundwise.

I think the OP referred to granular effects in a more outlandish kinda way, stutter delays...that sort of thing.

 

[scarr]

I don't know if it's better served in the Delay block (more logical) or the Pitch block (which uses the basic technology), but the idea here is to have separation between the granules as an option, rather than keeping them cohesive for a pitch shift/crystals effect.

 

[VegaBaby]

I don't know if it's better served in the Delay block (more logical) or the Pitch block (which uses the basic technology), but the idea here is to have separation between the granules as an option, rather than keeping them cohesive for a pitch shift/crystals effect.

Yes