Going stereo live

nextfoolmartyr

nextfoolmartyr

Inspired
I'm just thinking out loud here...

To go stereo you'd use both outs to two different monitors/speakers.

If you did that live, you'd have to mic the cabs, right?

Otherwise is there some sort of outboard equipment that you'd have to buy to go direct to FOH?
 
What do you mean?

You have 2 separate stereo outputs on the A-Fx.
So you could send output 1 in stereo to FOH (via XLR, no need for mics).
If the venue doesn't already provide monitoring for you (in either mono or stereo),
you could then use output 2 to use one (mono) or two (stereo) monitors.
 
I've posted before about "stereo" for live work.
I'll paraphrase - Don't waste your time.

Stereo for most PA's that are "stereo" - is really dual-mono and very few devices send a true stereo signal. While the Axe does stereo, by the time L and R feeds are hooked to FOH, they're treated like TWO MONO channels on a standard console. Those can be panned hard L/R to get the stereo effect, but mostly anything stereo is lost on the audience as most are NOT in the "zone".
The zone is that imaginary [inverted] triangle where the FOH speakers are the base points and the FOH console is the top. If you are outside that zone, stereo has no meaning... you can't hear it, or get it's effect, and that's why most PA's are dual-mono, so you can hear the same thing from both sides, no matter where in the house you are sitting.

It's fine to "go stereo" as you state in your OP, but the reality is that you will get dual-mono from the PA. If you sent it to an FRFR monitor or guitar amp on stage you'd get mono too.
 
s0c9 said:
I've posted before about "stereo" for live work.
I'll paraphrase - Don't waste your time.

Stereo for most PA's that are "stereo" - is really dual-mono and very few devices send a true stereo signal. While the Axe does stereo, by the time L and R feeds are hooked to FOH, they're treated like TWO MONO channels on a standard console. Those can be panned hard L/R to get the stereo effect, but mostly anything stereo is lost on the audience as most are NOT in the "zone".
The zone is that imaginary [inverted] triangle where the FOH speakers are the base points and the FOH console is the top. If you are outside that zone, stereo has no meaning... you can't hear it, or get it's effect, and that's why most PA's are dual-mono, so you can hear the same thing from both sides, no matter where in the house you are sitting.

It's fine to "go stereo" as you state in your OP, but the reality is that you will get dual-mono from the PA. If you sent it to an FRFR monitor or guitar amp on stage you'd get mono too.
Click to expand...
With all due respect, I totally disagree. Dual mono vs stereo is hogwash (keyboards and stereo reverb units will also be panned hard left and right, are they also "not true stereo"?). If your Axe-fx is set up in stereo, and if you send two outputs to FOH, and if they pan them hard left and right, you actually have a full stereo rig. There's no ifs and buts about it. I will concede that the stereo effect is not as effective in a venue as it is in a recording, that's obvious. But this statement about dual mono is just misinformation.

One more important thing to note: if your Axe-FX is set up with stereo signal chains, then there are definite advantages to routing two outs to FOH (and hard panning to L and R, for full stereo setup): you eliminate the risks of any phasing artifacts resulting from collapsing your signal to mono *anywhere* in the chain (and I really mean ANYWHERE... if you collapse it to mono within the Axe-fx, you risk getting those artifacts, and if you collapse it to mono outside the Axe-fx, i.e. by NOT panning hard L and R on the console, you AGAIN risk getting those artifacts). Of course you can send just one side of your output to FOH for a pure mono signal (only half of your stereo signal, actually).

So you may not get full benefit from running a live stereo setup, but if your presets are set up in stereo and the FOH supports it, then it's best to put in a little effort to ensure you are running TRUE stereo (i.e. pan hard L and R at FOH, and ensure you don't internally collapse to mono, ie avoid mono blocks downstream from stereo block in your Axe-fx signal chain).
 
I go stereo direct to FOH and this way I can:
1. use ping-pong delay
2. get bigger sound by using stereo enhancer
 
Dpoirier said:
With all due respect, I totally disagree. Dual mono vs stereo is hogwash (keyboards and stereo reverb units will also be panned hard left and right, are they also "not true stereo"?). If your Axe-fx is set up in stereo, and if you send two outputs to FOH, and if they pan them hard left and right, you actually have a full stereo rig. There's no ifs and buts about it. I will concede that the stereo effect is not as effective in a venue as it is in a recording, that's obvious. But this statement about dual mono is just misinformation.

One more important thing to note: if your Axe-FX is set up with stereo signal chains, then there are definite advantages to routing two outs to FOH (and hard panning to L and R, for full stereo setup): you eliminate the risks of any phasing artifacts resulting from collapsing your signal to mono *anywhere* in the chain (and I really mean ANYWHERE... if you collapse it to mono within the Axe-fx, you risk getting those artifacts, and if you collapse it to mono outside the Axe-fx, i.e. by NOT panning hard L and R on the console, you AGAIN risk getting those artifacts). Of course you can send just one side of your output to FOH for a pure mono signal (only half of your stereo signal, actually).

So you may not get full benefit from running a live stereo setup, but if your presets are set up in stereo and the FOH supports it, then it's best to put in a little effort to ensure you are running TRUE stereo (i.e. pan hard L and R at FOH, and ensure you don't internally collapse to mono, ie avoid mono blocks downstream from stereo block in your Axe-fx signal chain).
Click to expand...

Dpoirier,

I totally agree with you. My last cover band played numerous gigs where I ran sound myself right from the stage. I always ran my axe Fx IN STEREO live. I also ran keyboards in stereo live at times when we had had a keyboardist. It sounded great. While it is true that you won't hear the full (or maybe even any) effect of the stereo imaging, depending on where you stand, it won't sound "bad" at all. At worst, you may experience 2 slightly different mono signals (which is all that stereo really is). If anything, I never had to worry about phasing issues if I tried using a patch that was set up to run with effects in stereo. And, as long as you sort of stood anywhere in front of the stage, it sounded really good. If you stood off to the side, it still sounded fine. I didn't usually use really wide stereo on my effects, anyway. Regardless, even when I did, it still sounded OK. I know because I've let guys sit in for me for songs and I'd walk around the room to check out what the audience was hearing. It killed every time. It was never an issue whatsoever.

If you play a show with a sound system that will only be run in mono, it's very simple... keep your Axe FX set up the way you normally use it and only send the sound person a cable from 1 of your outputs. I usually chose the "Left" side of "output 1" and still kept the Axe Fx set for stereo. I would then just send the signal for the "right" side of "output 2" to my personal FRFR monitoring device. (I used output 2 for me so that if I adjusted the volume with the knob on the front of my Axe Fx, I wasn't changing the volume of what I sent to the sound guy.) Anyway, I'd hear the left signal through the house monitors and the right signal thru my personal stage monitor. I still experienced some level of stereo imaging right on stage and always loved it. And, my patches were always set up so that if you only heard one side, it still sounded OK. And, in the audience, as you got closer to the middle of the dance floor or closer to the stage, you'd hear the other side of the stereo imaging coming from my stage volume (my personal monitoring device). It always worked. I liked it better than always being stuck in mono.
 
s0c9 said:
I've posted before about "stereo" for live work.
I'll paraphrase - Don't waste your time.

Stereo for most PA's that are "stereo" - is really dual-mono and very few devices send a true stereo signal. While the Axe does stereo, by the time L and R feeds are hooked to FOH, they're treated like TWO MONO channels on a standard console. Those can be panned hard L/R to get the stereo effect, but mostly anything stereo is lost on the audience as most are NOT in the "zone".
The zone is that imaginary [inverted] triangle where the FOH speakers are the base points and the FOH console is the top. If you are outside that zone, stereo has no meaning... you can't hear it, or get it's effect, and that's why most PA's are dual-mono, so you can hear the same thing from both sides, no matter where in the house you are sitting.

It's fine to "go stereo" as you state in your OP, but the reality is that you will get dual-mono from the PA. If you sent it to an FRFR monitor or guitar amp on stage you'd get mono too.
Click to expand...

+1.
Unless your mains are above the heads of the crowd, running a live stero mix makes the entire band sound weird...High Frequency is line of sight...if something gets in the way...like dancers...the people on the left side of the dance floor only hear what's coming from your subs or mids...If you're playing a stage that's standard theater height above the dancefloor, and your mains are on the stage, then it should be ok...otherwise...don't waste your effor....now, that said.

I send a stereo mix (L/R) to the mixer, but the output from the board is in mono.
 
What about just using the enhancer for a broader guitarsound? Would that be a waste of time?

Cheers!
- jonah
 
jonah said:
What about just using the enhancer for a broader guitarsound? Would that be a waste of time?

Cheers!
- jonah
Click to expand...

It's not going to matter. The issue isn't the quality of what you're sending to the mix...the point is..that if you're playing live venues (such as dance clubs) the mains are never going to be high enough above the heads of the crowd for the entire room to hear the entire band...the left channel sounds aren't going to get across the dancefloor, through the dancers, to the people in the right side of the room.

Unless you're playing a true concert venue, where your stage is 3 feet above the crowd, and your mains speakers are obviously above the heads of the tallest people in there...you're wasting time and effort...run mono if you want to sound better in local venue type rooms.
 
I played stereo live before and if you use stereo chorus and you stand where you only get one side of the signal.. well it sounds like your guitar is outa tune.... live i think stereo is not very useful...
also I remember reading an interview with Satriani and he said the best thing he ever done for his audience was to stop trying to project a stereo image to the crowd. .... Donnie
 
DonnieNeo said:
I played stereo live before and if you use stereo chorus and you stand where you only get one side of the signal.. well it sounds like your guitar is outa tune.... live i think stereo is not very useful...
also I remember reading an interview with Satriani and he said the best thing he ever done for his audience was to stop trying to project a stereo image to the crowd. .... Donnie
Click to expand...

I've seen Satch at least ten times. His best tone was running two 6100 halfstacks in stereo. Once he started screwing with it, and changed to Peavey, it went to crap. I haven't used my Axe live yet as it's only been here a few days, but I'll try stereo. The two speakers will be behind me, so I may be the only one to get the effect, but if it sounds good to me, I'm more relaxed and play better. Of course I'll walk out and if it sounds bad where the audience is, it'll have to go. The audience usually doesn't know if your tone is good or not. But I know acutely if I'm fighting my rig all night, or it's helping me express myself.
 
I love to play stereo live, but it's mostly for my own enjoyment :) Dweezil runs his Axe-Fx stereo to FOH in large venues. He does some auto and hard splits which in such a large space can be pretty dramatic. When I've seen him in a good space, the sound is awesome. In a bad sound space, the difference has never seemed to come down to one which mono/stereo would impact much. With a little careful preset design, you can even make sure that if you need to switch to L+R SUM your presets still work.
 
I agree... The 6100's were awesome for Satch. However he actually was not running them in stereo per 'se. He used them as a wet - dry setup. This give the FOH guy more control over the FX ratio.

Way back in the day he tried a true stereo setup but opted against it after many attempts.

shotgunn
 
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