Going from one FRFR monitor to two

mariomg

mariomg

New Member
Hi all,

First message ever in this great community. I've been using an Axe FX II for the last months on my band rehearsals. From the very beginning, I was pretty convinced about using a FRFR solution, so I purchased a single used QSC K12. I have to say I'm pretty happy with the sound alone, but usually my band mate has what I would call a very much "thicker" sound with his Orange Dual Terror on a 2x12 (sometimes I think I'm playing on a toy speaker).

I have several doubts regarding my current setup, which hopefully somebody can help with:
  • Placement of my speaker. I've noticed that these speakers dispersion is very limited. So usually I tend to think I'm sounding really good (because I'm in front of it), but when moving a little bit the sensation is totally different. The speaker is placed horizontally on a shelf, I don't know if it's the better setup for it.
  • Now I have the chance of purchasing more gear, and I'm a little bit confused about two options: another QSC K12, and placing the pair like a traditional PA system, behind the drums... or a power amp (art-sla 1) and a guitar cab loaded with Beyma FRFR speakers. I would buy them already used, so I won't have the possibility of returning it and I'd like to have some certainty about making a good decision. So, any experience there regarding this?

Thanks a lot, I hope I can continue learning new things here.
 
I have some experiece with the ART SLA1, but I used it with an Engl tube preamp and a Recto cab. In all honesty the tone was horrendously brittle. (The Engl was awesome with a tube poweramp I tried.) It may sound better the way you plan to use it, but I would try it first, if that is an option.
 
There have been others here who have tried in various fashion to use full range speakers in "generic" cabinets, not typically to great response.

Are the Beyma speakers coaxial? Normally you need a tweeter and crossover of some sort.

The SLA-1 should work fine. I used an SLA-2 before I got my Matrix and the sound was very similar.

Remember that the Axe Fx models the power amp as well.. Which is not the same as a preamp only.
 
mariomg said:
Hi all,

First message ever in this great community. I've been using an Axe FX II for the last months on my band rehearsals. From the very beginning, I was pretty convinced about using a FRFR solution, so I purchased a single used QSC K12. I have to say I'm pretty happy with the sound alone, but usually my band mate has what I would call a very much "thicker" sound with his Orange Dual Terror on a 2x12 (sometimes I think I'm playing on a toy speaker).

I have several doubts regarding my current setup, which hopefully somebody can help with:
  • Placement of my speaker. I've noticed that these speakers dispersion is very limited. So usually I tend to think I'm sounding really good (because I'm in front of it), but when moving a little bit the sensation is totally different. The speaker is placed horizontally on a shelf, I don't know if it's the better setup for it.
  • Now I have the chance of purchasing more gear, and I'm a little bit confused about two options: another QSC K12, and placing the pair like a traditional PA system, behind the drums... or a power amp (art-sla 1) and a guitar cab loaded with Beyma FRFR speakers. I would buy them already used, so I won't have the possibility of returning it and I'd like to have some certainty about making a good decision. So, any experience there regarding this?

Thanks a lot, I hope I can continue learning new things here.
Click to expand...

QSC K12 speaker dispersion is limited, compared to what? Your band mate's 2x12? The QSC has 75 degree directivity, should be plenty good... If you think your band mate's 2x12 has better dispersion, it might just be that you're not pumping out enough sound. Then adding another QSC K12 should do it.

Don't try to put together your own FRFR speakers. Normal people (like me, me too bud!) don't have the knowledge nor the equipment to build a comparable one to commercial ones. Just because you put an "FRFR speaker" in a cab doesn't make it an FRFR. If that's OK with you, go ahead, it might be fun.
 
I used to play through an ART SLA1 into a 2x12 THD cab, then later into a Verve 12ma FRFR, then into a Matrix GFX1000 into the 2x12, now into an Atomic CLR Neo. To my ears the sound got better with each and the CLR is easily the best of those. I sold the ART and Verve. When we gig (bars and small clubs) I get lots of compliments on my tone, so I don't think dispersion with that one speaker is a problem as we often run instruments off stage volume at bars.
 
Without actually hearing what you're hearing, the best we can do is guess at this. Here are a few guesses.


mariomg said:
...usually my band mate has what I would call a very much "thicker" sound with his Orange Dual Terror on a 2x12 (sometimes I think I'm playing on a toy speaker).
Click to expand...
If your tone sounds like a toy...have you dialed it in at gig volume, with the band playing along? If not, your tone is likely to disappoint.

Your friend's speaker is on the floor. Yours is not. That gives him a natural advantage when it comes to bottom end. Your K12 is shaped to work as a floor monitor. Try it that way.

Your K12 has way more dispersion than any 2x12 guitar speaker.
 
Thanks a lot, guys. So it seems that the preferred option here is keeping the FRFR monitors or something similar. I'm pretty sure that my impression about the dispersion is related to a bad placement of the speaker. That's one of the reasons I'm thinking about getting another one and locating them behind the drums, I guess the sound will be wider that way.

#4, definitely you may be right... I usually don't like to play very loud (unlike my mate), so the volume can be another topic.

Just another question: any experience mixing two different FRFR speakers? Just in case I cannot get another used QSC K12, I'm thinking about getting a brand new Electro Voice. I guess I should have to tweak the EQ for each of the speakers, right?

Thanks!
 
Behind the drums? Don't do that to your drummer. :(

Mixing FRFRs is fine.

But you should get to the bottom of your tone first. If it's not blending well, that needs to be addressed. Adding more speakers won't fix that.
 
yeah...no...don't put them behind the drummer. assuming you set up on the opposite side of the stage as your other guitarist, put your speakers on the floor, maybe on their sides so they point directly forward rather than up, with a slightly "spread" pattern. it'll be easier if you have two monitors the same, rather than having to deal with different eq's. the less variables the better (and you won't go insane).
see if you can spend some time with your other guitarist...just the two of you in a rehearsal space and have a listen to his tone and yours at gig volume. if yours is lacking, see if you can figure out why. think about some of the tweaks you've made to take the amp/cab away from default. and think whether they're really necessary.
 
Thanks a lot guys for your replies. So just as a summary from your opinions:
  • FRFR speakers is definitley a good way to go. I'll forget about experiments with cheap cabs and custom speakers. I've been always convinced of this approach, because for me it is the way to take the most advantage of the Axe and all of its possibilities.
  • Try to dial the tone with the whole band playing at rehearsal/gig volume. Or at least try to convince the other guy about not starting a volume war.
  • Improve the placement on the speaker. Here I still have some doubts, in the next rehearsal I'll try to put it on the floor, in front of the whole band.
  • Getting another one is OK (and much better if both of them are equal), but not placing them behind the drummer (I was thinking about it because one of my problems is that the drummer sometimes cannot hear me). So I guess the better place would be the opposite wall in the room, right?
I'm attaching a schema of our current setup and the two alternatives I'm evaluating just in case you can give some tips :) I'll try first alternative 1 (purple) and probably alternative 2 if I get another speaker.

upload_2017-11-23_9-54-24.png
 
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