Ginormous amounts of clipping after 7.0 install

digitalwaveform

digitalwaveform

Member
So I upgraded to 7.0 and all my distorted heavy presets are clipping out 1 red now. Given that it's taken a long time to get the volumes balanced between patches for live use, this is obviously no fun since lowering these means I have to lower everything else respectively across the board.

But I tried an experiment. I loaded up C384 Bypass. Put an Amp Block (Dizzy V43) (for this example) and pulled up a cab 4x12 German - and I get mad clipping. This is without touching a parameter. Tried a ton of other amp models and cabs and virtually every one clips red.

Tried reading 7 or so pages of the upgrade thread but I can't seem to find a reason for this. Am I missing something??? If I can't fix this tonight I gotta revert cause I have gigs next 3 days. Thanks guys!
 
Just turn down the level in the amp block.

Some amps are louder than others and some cabs are louder than others. We don't test every single amp/cab combo.

I will double check the factory presets. I was not getting clipping previously.
 
I thought it was just me... Here's a quick global fix.

Press GLOBAL
Page to OUT1 (graphic EQ)
Lower the GAIN slider (on the far right) a few db
 
I can do that, but I can't believe that this is a behavior that is a feature or intended. If I'm in a blank preset and just pull up 1 of 20 different amps and attach it to any of 20 different cabs and it's totally clipping - that's pretty counter intuitive, not to mention has never happened before with my Ultras or the II.
 
What happens is that when Cliff reprograms the power amp modeling algorithms it changes the point at which some amps clip for a given level of the Master knob. If the Master isn't clipping as quickly then it makes the amp a lot louder than it was in a previous firmware.

I agree that it would be good if you could scroll through amp types without getting your head blown off when you get to the Diezels and some of the other high gainers. But if we change the levels again then everybody who's already programmed patches with 7.0 will need to change them again in 7.01.
 
There's another point too which is how it takes a long long time to balance all your volumes across all your patches. So when something like this happens with an upgrade it's pretty mission critical for gigging guys. So sure, I can just lower everything 3 DB, but at stage volume if I accidentally hit a stock patch I'll shoot my speaker thru the wall. Which has happened before at soundcheck or when some drunk chick falls on my pedalboard.
I'll try the Global reduction in vol and see if that works for me.

It's a slippery slope because you spend hours get just the right volume increases and decreases. For live, I've found virtually every effect needs to have a 1-4db or more of level increase to pop out of the mix when you activate it. Otherwise in a rock context you can't really hear it punch out. So you have a clean patch which needs gobs of headroom to keep from clipping when you lay into it anyway, but you have to also make sure that even with every effect turned on you still have that headroom. All your boosts and everything can add a lot of gain, even if you compress the shit out of everything. Then, your heavy patches have to be adjusted to the cleans volume. So it can be very tricky to get your cleans to have all the headroom you need and be loud enough to be dynamic, and then have somewhere to go on top of everything for your heavy stuff. Which like I said, can result in the stock patches being significantly louder then your patches if you decide to AB them.

Don't even get me started if you saved some patches with no cab sims on and accidentally pull up one of those, the paint will come off the walls if you audition one by mistake.

I create dead buffer patches 10 higher then my main patches and one on each side so if I accidentally hit the patch up 10 on my foot controller by mistake on a dark stage I don't play some horrible plexi preset thru a 132db FOH PA. You wanna see people jump under tables, try that sometime.
 
Automatic Volume level optimization would a nice simple feature to for future firmware versions.
 
AdamCook said:
But if we change the levels again then everybody who's already programmed patches with 7.0 will need to change them again in 7.01.
Click to expand...
I would think most still would prefer that though, that is, if it's a simple instruction/change of "lower the MV by this much", but I guess that would be different for each amp... Hm...

I'm also wondering / asking if for the first 50 presets you could A/B them with the previous version (or a good sounding version like v6), so they at least don't sound worse. My first impression is that a lot of magic was added in v7, but I personally lost a lot of magic presets in the first 50 alone...
Maybe it's not so easy, but if the same guy with the same guitar A/B'd it, I would hope it would sound around the same, but better.

OTOH, I did the 18V mod to my EMG pickups. I don't know if that's to blame and I now have a stupid hi-fi sound or something :mrgreen
Will be trying with P90ies in the next days.
 
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I'd settle for a global brickwall limiter - even if it sounded like shit, it would save a lot of speakers from blowing up.

It's for a whole other thread, but it's something that would be cool to have vol optimization. I could see it using the tone matching - play your gtr thru the TM block and then apply that to your presets. It would be super sweet if you could see where clipping is happening anyway, which currently you can't. As it is it's pretty much, 'lower this block until it doesn't clip, rinse repeat 90 times' It would be amazing if the layout screen showed clipping by flashing the block and having the meters flip to in/out for that block. I've always had a hard time gripping how so many stock presets could clip anyway. But this is hijacking my thread. I'm just way more bummed that I have to try to do all this at soundcheck - blah.
 
I definitely recognize all your concerns as I am gigging guitarist myself. I share many of the same issues.

You don't have to worry about "where" clipping is happening. You can turn down any block in the preset to achieve the desired result. Usually it would be the amp block or later so you don't alter the gain structure of the preset.

A global limiter is a clever idea though. We'll definitely consider that.
 
digitalwaveform said:
...at stage volume if I accidentally hit a stock patch I'll shoot my speaker thru the wall. Which has happened before at soundcheck or when some drunk chick falls on my pedalboard.
Click to expand...
This. It's been a long-standing issue for me. When you level your patches from clean to dirty to acoustic, you can wind up with levels that are several dB below the levels of the stock patches, which seem to approach full-scale. I like to keep a couple of dozen stock patches easily available, because you never know what you'll be playing next, or who you'll be playing it with, and the stock patches are such a wonderful pallete of tones to start from.

It would be nice if the levels of the stock patches were reduced by 8 dB or so across the board.
 
I'm not disagreeing with anyone here, so please... no flaming!

I pretty much accept that with each free update, there will be an hour or so of resetting levels and such. In truth, I normally end up trying different amps and cabs in every update because I just find sounds I like better, or that fit my band better. I never update with gigs in the next 3-5 days.

I agree it would be spectacular if it were absolutely plug & play, but I am totally good with revisiting settings every time a bunch of new amps, cabs, effects, and capabilities arrive for $0. It keeps me familiar with the settings process and refines my sound every time through. I am probably in a small minority there, but having come over less than two years ago from other platforms with no updates, or expansion packs for only $99... well you know the song.

In this incarnation, I haven't had huge problems using the Fender, Boogie, Soldano, and Friedman amps. I haven't auditioned all of the new ones, so perhaps I will experience some of the things here. First gig on V7 tomorrow, so we'll see. I am looking forward to it!
 
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