Gibson selling off their memphin TN factory

I reckon that Gibson in its pricing betted heavily on the effect that people tend to be distrustful of cheap things. If its too cheap people suspect that there's something wrong with the product and that the more expensive product is probably better.
There's a psychological game that is sometimes used in marketing any kind of product, but not always.

One example, is about a buddy of mine. He used to work at a place like Sears or something similar. He was the top salesman in his department, which was electronics. He said his method succeeded in getting customers to buy the expensive televisions. He'd greet them, ask what they were looking for in a TV and then walk them past all the expensive models and right to the cheaper models. He'd go into a sales pitch about the cheap models, but the majority of customers would ask, "Well, what about these" (pointing at the expensive ones). After that it was pretty much a slam dunk in getting them out the door with the expensive TV. People feel insulted that they're led straight to the cheap models and they react by thinking "Hey. I can afford that. You assume I don't have enough money for the good stuff?"

One more example. There was a eating place that sold a $5 steak and it was really good. My friend (same guy who used to sell the TV's) would go there a lot because of that. One day he walks in there and it's not on the menu anymore. They said that they weren't selling enough and discontinued it. He told them put it back on the menu, but charge $15 for it. They eventually did and after some time had past, my friend went back there to eat. They told him that they were selling those SAME steaks like crazy, now. People equate price with quality.
 
From Gibson Wiki:

"The company (Gibson) was within three months of going out of business before it was bought by Henry E. Juszkiewicz, David H. Berryman, and Gary A. Zebrowski in January 1986...."

Henry took over and jacked up prices across the board using the same strategy "people equate price to quality". People absolutely want to pay a higher price for certain things, to feel like they are getting the best, most premium thing. Like we do when we buy Fractal stuff :)

As I understand, it worked back then, business turned around and Henry was a big hero for a while, but that was over 30 years ago.
 
Yeah but that was back when their QC didn't suck quite as bad. For $2000+, getting anything other than a flawless product is completely unacceptable. They used pictures of damaged guitars on their own website for crying out loud. That is just a complete lack of attention to detail on so many levels. I hope they get their crap together. Be a shame for them to go under.
 
I can agree that people associate price with value, but people also don't like spending thousands on lemons. Look, I still salivate over a Les Paul Custom Axcess in white with gold hardware and a Floyd, but there's no way in hell I'm gambling $6k on a guitar. I have a local luthier building me my custom guitar, and I'm still nervous about connecting with it. His other instruments are amazing, so I should have nothing to worry about, but the thought is still there. When Gibson jacked up their prices in 2015 (29% according to this reverb.com article https://reverb.com/news/gibson-to-increase-prices-update-models-for-2015) I finally said to myself I will never purchase a new Gibson. I had finally worked myself into a really nice position at work, and was actually making money with my music. Due to the fact that none of my local guitar stores have the Gibson that I'd want, I could never justify paying that much for a guitar I can't sit down and get a feel for.
 
Yeah but that was back when their QC didn't suck quite as bad. For $2000+, getting anything other than a flawless product is completely unacceptable. They used pictures of damaged guitars on their own website for crying out loud. That is just a complete lack of attention to detail on so many levels. I hope they get their crap together. Be a shame for them to go under.

It's definitely a management problem. The only thing management cares about are production metrics, just hard numbers. How many guitars left the factory today, how many did each luthier produce per hour, etc. And you better produce those numbers or you're out of a job, basically zero questions asked. They don't care if you produce less because you're paying high attention to detail or if half the guitars you get have cracks and chunks knocked out of them. You better damn well hit your numbers.

Also I buy a little of the price = quality psychological argument, but not to anywhere near the degree Gibson is doing it.

You're right, $2,000 for anything less than a flawless instrument is ridiculous.
And $5,000 or more (or whatever similar figure they're charging for Customs) for anything less than literally the last guitar you'll ever want to touch, much less some lemon with fret buzz on every string and weird dud resonance issues, oh and without an ebony fretboard, goes straight into just being sad and hilarious at the same time.


edit: believe it or not, I want to like Gibson guitars. I think a black Les Paul Custom with gold hardware and speed knobs was one of the most beautiful instruments ever conceived, and an older Les Paul standard with a great burst finish isn't too far behind. I just wish they'd, you know, actually make good versions of those guitars and either price them according to their quality or make them good enough to justify the price.
 
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Hey Jimmy, if you like the 335, you might take a look at Heritage. IMHO, much better quality than Gibson and way better prices.......

I toured their factory last year. Beautiful guitars, and I love their pride in what they do. It is the old Gibson factory, and they use all the original tooling, templates, etc. Still waiting to get 'approval' to start a build though.
 
So, a Gibson 335 in the late fifties/early sixties cost $335 (that's how it was named). If you factor in the value of money, at today's prices, the same guitar today would go for $2,751. Also, I discussed the issue w/a buddy at work today. Gibson has put a minimum a order on retailers, so that small retail business can't afford to place orders...so many have dropped the product line. Only the big companies (Sweetwater, Musicians Friend, and Guitar Center) can afford to carry this much inventory...the smaller shops are getting squeezed out...also consider the competition with Chinese/Japanese/Korean manufacturing. Many of these manufacturers don't honor the limits on using rare woods... It's hard for an American Company to compete these days...Also, they're are less young people that want to play and buy a really nice guitar...

BTW, I'm old enough to remember...back in the day (60's) you could play 3-5 of the same guitar or amp and only 1 of them would be a great instrument...
 
Earlier today I saw this about (yet another) guitar from Gibson.com which clearly shows a broken headstock. File under "you know they're in trouble when..."

https://www.gearnews.com/gibson-les-paul-traditional-2018-now-pre-cracked-headstocks/

:confused: Gibson has "fixed" the problem with Photoshop. Exact same photo here, but with the crack magically erased:
http://www.gibson.com/Products/Electric-Guitars/2018/USA/Les-Paul-Traditional-2018.aspx#LPTD18TBNH1

Edit:
At second look, I notice it's the Traditional model. This does make sense though, as that spot is Traditionally where headstocks have been known to break.
 
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From Gibson Wiki:

"The company (Gibson) was within three months of going out of business before it was bought by Henry E. Juszkiewicz, David H. Berryman, and Gary A. Zebrowski in January 1986...."

Henry took over and jacked up prices across the board using the same strategy "people equate price to quality". People absolutely want to pay a higher price for certain things, to feel like they are getting the best, most premium thing. Like we do when we buy Fractal stuff :)

As I understand, it worked back then, business turned around and Henry was a big hero for a while, but that was over 30 years ago.

I don't buy Fractal because its more expensive. The price actually scared me off for years. I finally bought my Axe FX because it actually was the best modeler out there. I still wished it was cheaper though. But for expression pedals I'm not going to fork for the expensive Fractal or Mission pedals. An expression pedal is a pedal with a potentiometer in them, not magic fairy dust. A cheap Roland pedal is good enough for me.

I can agree that people associate price with value, but people also don't like spending thousands on lemons. Look, I still salivate over a Les Paul Custom Axcess in white with gold hardware and a Floyd, but there's no way in hell I'm gambling $6k on a guitar. I have a local luthier building me my custom guitar, and I'm still nervous about connecting with it. His other instruments are amazing, so I should have nothing to worry about, but the thought is still there. When Gibson jacked up their prices in 2015 (29% according to this reverb.com article https://reverb.com/news/gibson-to-increase-prices-update-models-for-2015) I finally said to myself I will never purchase a new Gibson. I had finally worked myself into a really nice position at work, and was actually making money with my music. Due to the fact that none of my local guitar stores have the Gibson that I'd want, I could never justify paying that much for a guitar I can't sit down and get a feel for.

That is why you can jack up prices, but the quality has to be there as well. It should play right, straight out of the box. Otherwise you get, well, the mess Gibson currently is in.

Earlier today I saw this about (yet another) guitar from Gibson.com which clearly shows a broken headstock. File under "you know they're in trouble when..."

https://www.gearnews.com/gibson-les-paul-traditional-2018-now-pre-cracked-headstocks/

You buy a Gibson, chances are it will crack its headstock at some point. My local luthier is bewildered by Gibson's persistence in the construction of its necks and headstock. It's all made out of one piece. Not only is it incredibly (criminally) wasteful in the amount of excess wood that has to be routed off, it actually makes the headstocks more vulnerable.
 
I posted this in another post recently but here it is again.

I will never buy a Gibson again. I have an SG I All American from 1994 that the Gibson logo is separating from the headstock and they want over $500 to fix it. Funny how my friends Chibsons have never had that issue. I have a Samick SG thats older but in better condition. You'd think just out of pride they'd cut me a deal to fix it. At least if I try to sell it, it's definitely not a counterfeit because only the real Gibson's have that issue.

This is what my SG headstock looks like. I've seen others online with the same issue. Some people say it's caused by moisture but it's always been in it's case in a heated and Air conditioned room with all my other guitars.

img_20161214_222508681-1-jpg.42248
 
Im not a big fan of dogging a company or wishing employees lose their jobs. When my band had a stop in Memphis we took the gibson tour at the factory. Sure there are more options out there, but they still make good guitars...just maybe not good enough to message board folk. I think they are just trapped in a viscous circle that many businesses fall into. They are making money, but not enough to offset costs...so they think to increase pricing will close that gap without laying people off or closing factories.
 
Im not a big fan of dogging a company or wishing employees lose their jobs. When my band had a stop in Memphis we took the gibson tour at the factory. Sure there are more options out there, but they still make good guitars...just maybe not good enough to message board folk. I think they are just trapped in a viscous circle that many businesses fall into. They are making money, but not enough to offset costs...so they think to increase pricing will close that gap without laying people off or closing factories.

1. Gibson employees are actually the most OUTSPOKEN of almost any company out there about how dissatisfied they are, how much they hate CEO and how much they hate the company. And I'm not saying "read guitar world" I'm saying read- FORBES, and GLASSDOOR, and the biggest business media outlets out there.

2. If you saw the factory- you know they're "hand made" but also extremely mass produced...

3. Their guitars are terrible- not just bad for "message board folks" but anyone that spends minimum $2000 on a musical instrument
You'd think spending the kind of money you could get a guitar that's set up to play- or cracked

4. They have a horrible CEO and are run like shit- when they get rid of him- and probably give him $20+ million to go away for no reason- as if he did a good job- someone might make it better- but probably not.

5. They've broke federal laws importing wood- whether Obama is good or bad or the government is good or bad- they admitted wrongdoing

6. Musicians don't buy new gibsons- doctors/lawyers/real estate guys with money and nothing better to do with it buy Gibsons.

7. I see people hear happy and bragging about their newish gibsons- they're happy because they got it probably half price because the stores can't get rid of them- and they're lying to themselves that they're good- when they're a horrible value

8. Price is what you pay- value is what you get
 
I just bought an expensive Gibson L5 guitar.
You guys are making me out to some kind of doctor or lawyer or real estate guy
with too much money...au contraire...
I wanted that guitar because of the way it sounds which is classic.

Having said that the 1984 es347 I own is finally correct.
I dunno what they were smoking back then.
I ripped the wiring harness and pickups out, put em in a box for posterity.
Got a new wiring harness, 2 57pickups, had glaser instruments in nashville clean up the neck.
...and now there is nothing on gibson's site that'll touch it.

So I will say I have a true love/hate relationship with this company.
And if I were looking for a new solid body...it would not be a gibson.
 
A Gibson Solidbody and semi hollow are very different

All the necks are made in Montana
(Acoustics and Semi Hollow necks are- i'm 50% solid body necks are too- but I could be wrong)

Solidbodys are made in Nashville- can't say I've seen anything good out of there

The semi Hollows are from Memphis (interesting fact- all the white guitars are finished/completed in Memphis too)

While they're mass produced I've seen their work and they put more work/care compared to what I've seen come in solid body form

So- you can have a love/hate relationship with it- which is I think where everyone is with them- but- I think the majority of the concern comes with what comes out of Nashville and Montana compared to Memphis
 
Im not a big fan of dogging a company or wishing employees lose their jobs. When my band had a stop in Memphis we took the gibson tour at the factory. Sure there are more options out there, but they still make good guitars...just maybe not good enough to message board folk. I think they are just trapped in a viscous circle that many businesses fall into. They are making money, but not enough to offset costs...so they think to increase pricing will close that gap without laying people off or closing factories.

Thing is, they don't make good guitars, they make bad to mediocre guitars. Even their cheap Chinese subsidiary Epiphone makes better guitars, and they cost only a 10th of a Gibson. And its not just message board folk complaining, even their signature artists are distancing themselves from Gibson.

If they've fallen into a vicious cycle its that they have gotten a CEO manager straight out of the Dilbert comics, with no clue how to run a business other then following trendy buzzwords, who knows nothing about the product, doesn't care about the product, doesn't care about the company, only about his stock portfolio and his golden parachute. Managers like that are parasites who cause unbridled damage to the economy and to worker's lives. These people are worse then ISIS suicide attackers because the damage they cause is far more widespread and longer lasting. The carnage we saw in New York recently was terrible, but despite the terrible loss of life that city will survive. A town that depends on a plant and sees it run into the ground, or outsource abroad, thanks to greedy managers, that is truly scre wed.

hahahahahaha

I was right... they have no idea what they're doing

https://reverb.com/news/gibson-releases-neon-les-paul

It could work, but not at $4899 a pop. $899 would be a better pricing. Certainly no more then that.
 
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