G3 Dumble and Cliff's Impression

[Robboman]

To answer the question on the Axe taking away sales because it has a good emulation of the model....is about as far from the truth as you can get. They are different technologies and have different uses for different people.

I can vouch for this due to the painful GAS I'm feeling for a real Tucana 3, a direct result of my exposure to the model in the Axe-Fx. If I only had a few more dollars I'd be placing my order. I only wish more amp builders would see how this really is and work with Cliff. Benefits everyone.

I also want to thank Mr Tex Axe for sharing all those insights from rare personal experiences with real Dumbles and EJ. Very cool.

 

[barhrecords]

I can vouch for this due to the painful GAS I'm feeling for a real Tucana 3, a direct result of my exposure to the model in the Axe-Fx. If I only had a few more dollars I'd be placing my order. I only wish more amp builders would see how this really is and work with Cliff. Benefits everyone.

I also want to thank Mr Tex Axe for sharing all those insights from rare personal experiences with real Dumbles and EJ. Very cool.

It was EC not EJ?

 

[Tex Axe]

Just use Cliffs ODS amp or SVT
use both and make two amps up..
change tubes to 6550 and or kt 88.
try both tubes on both amps.
EV 12L OH Speakers
bright switch ON

Adjust bass middle treble to taste and if things are still dark raise the presence.
I used london plate and medium spring reverb and made one of each.
used TS808Mod also BB or fulltone od or zen master and fuzz face as well mkII

Experiment with different tubes and tone stacks
find what sounds best too you.

If you are after Srv dial up you tube Srv sound check video and adjust too that.
I used that and other live references for my sounds.

I have been working on 113 different amps so I go in build them up adjust each one and save as.

I almost have C BANK full of my own amps.. I could not get too hung on one amp or the next so I dial them in pretty quickly
save what inspires me and I go in and name the amp in library and cab with speakers by name so later I can go back into Library and
have many different amps cabs and efx possibilities.

Im taking a break from it awhile to not get burned out on it. I started doing this back in 17 and 18 beta drops and I had to start all over
on 113 amps so im kinda taking it easy as I must go back in and re do every amp I just built from 17.4 on..

I upgraded to 18 and I still have to make adjustments and set things in stone but I have to start over when 18 fully drops
I am about to start on 113 amps all over again I want to finish the entire C BANK and have 127 amps but I keep getting
caught playing for hours and not getting too far.

I keep waiting for 18 to fully drop to start again but im going amp by amp today in C BANK to
redo everything Id made in 17.4. I wanted to make every sound that has influenced me my entire life
and its taking a bit of time.

Im lacking 14 amps to make 128 for Bank C
going amp by amp today to check levels and each scene to double check
things did not change.

I almost dont want to do it till 18 fully drops but I said that and went ahead and tried 18 and was so floored
by how much better things got I said well well start over.


its a love hate relationship im paying my dues getting an led tan.
but I want the best tone within 500 miles of me so be it.

It takes alot of time.. It will show in my sound so back too it..

Try building your own SSS type amp first get your dynamics down mess with presence
Im chin deep in redoing all these patches and trying to fill Bank C.

128 different amps and im having trouble getting the last 14 done.
im never going to be finished it seems...

stop typing concentrate

 

[kewlpack]

<JediMindTrick>You want to share all those fabulous amp patches with us</JediMindTrick> :ugeek

 

[austinbuddy]

I'd love to hear from Cliff on this, too. I built and tweaked for a year my own ODS non-HRM. Love that amp. I have played (briefly and once) RFs blonde ODS (#183 I think) and it seemed really special, but I was playing an unfamiliar guitar so who knows where the mojo was coming from? But based on the price tag alone...

Even after 18B, I've had to tweak my Ford model on the AFX quite a bit to get the same squishy but clear sound out of the model that I hear out of a good recording, but it lacks the same bloom. Close, but...there's some odd little feedback loop that you can dial in by running some of the preamp tube leads parallel to one another, and between that and getting the phase inverter balanced just so, there's a neat bloom that just happens even at low volumes on the real amp.

18B seemed to solidify the harmonic relationship of double stops and chords in that amp for me, though. Much closer to what I hear in my amp. Hit a 1-5 double stop that's in tune, and you hear a lot more of the major 3 than you used to, even on high strings.

I still feel like my main obstacle is the cabinet IRs; I'm using OH mixes now, and the 4x12 IRs sound good, but I have yet to hear a really great 2x12 open back IR with the G12-65 gnarl to it and the lack of boxiness.

Stay tuned. Posted this originally in the FW18 thread, as FW 18 beta contains a Bludo 1X12 IR mix.
------

I am allowed to tell you Fractal Audio is planning to release this Bludo 1X12 Ultra Res IR and others from the IR session it came from in a future Cab Pack, probably Cab Pack 10. The Cab Pack will feature four boutique cabs I own.

The four cabs used to make IRs for the forthcoming Cab Pack are:

1. Bogner 1X12 "Shiva" dual port with a Classic Lead 80 Celestion and a recessed back... I used this cab with a real Bogner Ecstasy 101b on 6th street in Austin; it sounds GREAT with the Bogner Shiva model and other modern boutique amps. As Bogner represents, this particular cab in real life fools mics into thinking it's a 4x12, it's a great cab design.

2. Bludotone 1X12 dual port with the WGS Blackhawk AlNiCo... the IR works great with the BludoOjai amp model and should work for lots of different Dumble-style amps or other similar boutique amps. Great cleans for Jazz as you will find in the 1x12 Bludo mix in FW 18 just released.

3. Bludotone 2x12 open oval back with G12-65H reissue Celestions... this is the same speaker cab design Robben Ford uses with his tan Dumble Overdrive Special.

4. Bludotone 2x12 open oval back with ASW (Austin Speaker Works) special-designed Bludotone speakers.

We shot about 120 different IRs (roughly 30 for each cab, including rooms and cab back) at CUE Recording studios, using a Neve 1073 preamp and a few good guitar mics: M160, R121, MD421, SM57, and a U47FET.

Counter-intuitively for some, we've found both 1X12 dual port cab IRs actually have more bottom end to them (dual bass ports!) than the 2x12 open oval backs do, but you can always add bottom end to any cab IR using a null mic and then dialing up the proximity knob in the Cab block. They will sit well in a mix "as is."

This Cab Pack IR collection will hopefully fill out some space in existing cab IR land between the 4x12 Marshall or Metal-oriented IRs and Fender-type cab IRs out there...

You'll be able to use Cab Lab to mix your own IRs from the individual mic IRs, whether Mark II or XL.

There'll be a few sample mixes for each cab too to check out. That's what Cliff used for the Bludo 1x12 new factory cab in FW 18.

Am sure these will be "coming soon" -- but there is no release date set yet...stay tuned!

 

[greiswig]

Good news, Austinbuddy. I'd seen the ported Bludotone listed, but not the 2x12 open back. If that's done right, that might be the one I'm looking for.

I can totally see more bass coming into the IR for the ported cab, just as I would expect it in the mic'd cab in the studio: ports facing the mic. But the open sound of the port in the rear is what I prefer. I've not heard an ODS (real or modeled) that seemed to lack bass! ;-)

PS - I have that same ASW speaker made for Bludotone paired with an old AlNiCo SRO in my 3D vertical cab. That is a tremendously good cabinet. Gnarl, crispness, bass without mud...yikes.

 

[Robboman]

It was EC not EJ?

Tex seems to have removed his earlier long posts that I had thanked him for (?) but if I recall\read correct he had commented on Eric Johnson's Dumble SSS that was never the same after Mr. Dumble repaired it (according to EJ, who said this in person to Mr. Tex).

 

[chucma]

This is fast becoming my fav thread to read! Thanks guys!

 

[Lionheart]

People who are hard left or hard right on the subject and generally not very experienced players in the real world......or simply forum trouble makers / haters.

I hope that you are not referring to me. (I'm pretty sure that you are not.)

My post was aimed at trying to understand the minds of amp builders. I did express my opinion of what it might look like from the outside to a consumer such as myself. I'm neither "hard left or hard right" on this subject.

Carol-AnnAmps, if you are referring to me, I will assure you that I am a very experienced player in the real world and mostly with real amps. I won't reveal my identity, but suffice it to say, I'm no amateur (however, I have been out of the spotlight for a few years now).

So, that being said, I'm not a trouble maker or hater, just a curious Axe-Fx owner with some legitimate questions. ;-)

 

[Stevenstrat]

one thing I always wonder, if you use 2 different IRs stereo, are they always in phase ?

 

[austinbuddy]

I'd love to get one of your SRV, Steel String Singer patches.

See if this helps --

Using a good Strat, create patch with the Ampeg SVT head for you amp, just as Tex suggests.

In Ampeg SVT head model, do the following changes:

- change the tonestack from "default" to "Skyline" ...(if you want, you can also try the new "Skyline deep" tonestack choice too, but I use default).

- switch the tone stack position to "Mid" for middle

- for the power Tubes, switch to 6550s if not selected.

- get the amp master volume up above 6, but not above 7.

- you can leave the Treb/Mid/Bass tone knobs at default/neutral, or each between 5 and 6

- set the drive/gain between 5 and 6, but experiment -- warm but not gritty, should be very clean

- in the amp's GEQ section, boost everything across the board up at +1 db, but boost the lows up 2 to 3db below 125hz and boost the highs above 8K up to 2 to 3db. Adjust these GEQ settings to taste, but with Strat pickups this adds lift, bottoms, and highs some bottom but more importantly the MIDs yet staying clean.

- if you want, play with the options for fine tuning tone like "Pop" or "Modern" -- I leave it neutral.

That should get you pretty close to that big, tube-y clean sound of SRV in a Steel String Singer "King Tone Counsoul" (it's actually bass amp called a DumbleLand in the guts I'm told)

Then, add a TS808 tube screamer drive block in front of the Ampeg, but turn the drive/gain knob almost all the way off, barely on -- like 0.10, and then do the volume about 6 or so. Click this in when you want to add "grit" to the sound -- SRV used it really as a pickup lift for his Strat. You can play with the TS808 tone control 5 to 7 range, but don't get too bright.

Use Cliff's factory 4X12 Dumble cab pair with EVL's and EVS speakers. You can figure out what mics to use for final touches, but no mics should do it.

I'd attach a patch but I own an XL model so it would not work for Mark IIs.

Hope this helps. - Austin Buddy

 

[Tex Axe]

I will get some IR recordings done of the D cab clone I have here. I can record it with 4 -6 mic's
try to get some ambient room sound from behind the cab as well.

I just used Ownhammer Ev and 65s and chose 4 12 cabs
then I selected 2 12 cabs and made up some Ev and 65 speakers
to have both.

I mentioned shooting the IR with 2 12 cab vertically as it sounds different
I think better standing up vs laying down using the Dumble heads.
I recorded both horizontally and vertically using evs and vertically using 65s.

Those should be fine for IR recordings.
I can do that again using 4 12 cab and using different amps 50 and 100 Dumbles
setting them flat eq wise.

Then re amp using my axe fx and the new amps I made up using Cliffs ODS and the SSS I dialed up.
I have to go back and re do all those amps because 18 changed everything.

I have to reset levels doing that today again to just get as many as I can done.
I can then have the levels all set for everything and I can re record it all.

This time using my amps already set in stone in axe fx II and reamp through
the D cabs I own and have 4-6 mic's in the sweet spots.

I thought that was more important then me making youtube videos
or soundcloud recordings..

I can do those when all 128 amps in bank C are set in stone and
go right down the line recording them using the own hammer Ir or
my own and mic my Eons and get both.

I want the D cab to be shot IR wise and thats the best way to do it I think.
I might get some down and dirty recordings of what I currently have in axe
oh ir wise and these amps ive made up just to give examples..

I feel thats contrite but just to prove im not a robot.
I thought why not get all 128 amps dialed in and
then make up several videos demonstrating several at once.

I have to adjust all the scenes and so I was going down the line doing all the amps.
Which is taking forever to get done with.. I dont want to be in rush it feels like work then.
and this is supposed to be fun and enjoyable.

So hoping 18 is fully born soon.
Time for breakfast..

 

[Tex Axe]

Hi guys,

Cliff owns a Tucana 3 and as of this week also a Triptik 50W (a lovely one in a gorgeous figured maple head cab actually). The Triptik originally modeled is the Axe was borrowed from a friend of mine and is actually a little modified. I drive Cliff nuts because I'll send him schematics, but I hand tweak each one, so when he opens his own up, it invariably different to the schematic. I do this so they all sound releatively similar and consistent. When you are building in the real world, you are dealing with hundreds of components that all have tolerances ranging from +/-1% to +/-20% as well as the effects of lead dress and the huge differences in tubes out there. So anyone who says they clone a Dumble or whatever because they are using identical components and values are generally missing the point totally. I cloned 5 Trainwrecks's for actual TW owners back in 2007. The owners sent me their amps to check out. I never opened up one of them. I just played them then recreated the tones I was hearing.

As most of you know Cliff owns many of the amps modeled in his products.

Firstly, the Tucana isn't a Dumble clone. The OD series amps are a bit closer to that thing, but still not clones. I've worked on a lot of Dumbles and they really aren't my thing. I'm British, I come more from the Marshall camp.

I play out live every week in a popular local cover band. I designed the original Tucana 1 model back in 2006 for myself. It was never ever meant to be a model in the CA lineup. But a few guys heard it and liked it so I added it and it to the lineup as a stand alone model or an ugrade to an OD2/3. I then updated it in 2010 to the Tucana 2 and more recently the Tucana 3. It's always been the flagship model and the one where I try out new ideas and designs that often also get included eventually in the other models.
The amp is meant for a gigging session player / cover band player /wedding band player. It's power, functions, ease of use, clarity of the front panel controls on a dark stage, biasmon circuit and wide array of tones make it a very useable 'live' model, just as it was always meant to be even before it was just my own amp.

To answer the question on the Axe taking away sales because it has a good emulation of the model....is about as far from the truth as you can get. They are different technologies and have different uses for different people. I use the amp in situations I wouldn't use an Axe and I use the Axre in situations its impossible to use the amp. All are part of my tool kit. I don't get in to the whole tube vs digital BS. Use whatever is the most suitable for your project. Right tool for the job. People who are hard left or hard right on the subject and generally not very experienced players in the real world......or simply forum trouble makers / haters.

I played several of the patches modeled after some of these amps today and really liked what I heard.
I will be moving some of those patches up on my favorites list..

Going back through 113 amps to get them re adjusted and to try to make 128 up to fill bank C with
amps I dialed in and saved.

I found myself wanting to play on the Carol ann models really enjoyed the Triptik models
had to force myself to stop playing them or id not get through the 113 amps im re setting.
up too 333 now getting there.. I lack 14 other amps to fill Bank C entirely full..

Taking several days of that but im getting there.
I was quite floored over the Carol ann amp models in 18 so thought id give praise on those..

Some amps wont make the cut too the #1 list but those sure did.

If the local scene picks up Id be gigging with the axe fx II and leaving the tube amps at home.
Meanwhile im resetting 1024 scenes to adjust them all for 18B.

I agree on the thought that tube amps and axe fx are both useful and If I had need to use
a tube amp id use my ODSR and use the axe as efx loop only. Using both But it seems most clubs
dont want it so loud people cant speak to one another and a buddy of mine plays Oklahoma clubs and
they play at near conversation levels so for that situation id use the axe. Since its so Dynamic I can get those great sounds
at lower volumes and not feel slighted.. I figured if thats the reality of things around where I live its best to dial all the sounds in
where it can be low level and if I get a chance to play with some volume then its just going to sound better with more volume
so thats what I am doing setting up 128 amps to choose from for different types of music and trying to get the levels all set
close too the same so its seamless.

For me if the sound is not there or the tone isnt happening then my playing is going to suck its going to show cause Im not going to be inspired.
Ie hey could you turn that down and hey could you turn it down and you mind turning it down some ?
and I wonder if you dont mind turning it down. ?

That to me did not sound like very much fun so even the 50 watt amps I own will rumble most clubs around here
Better to use the axe fx II and be able to have it all dialed in where I can drop levels if needed and still be inspired.

I want to hear hey that sounds really great can you turn that up some ?
Yes I sure can.. to just maybe just maybe please the club owners who are paying the band to be asked back.

It would be great if the music scene picked up if so the the hours of hard work setting these amps and efx up
to be seamless will pay off.

Build it and they will come..
Play where people can still speak and think and they might come back.
Appease the club owners and draw a crowd to drink then you might be hirable.

Walk in setup in 10 min and blow minds and not play too loud and draw a crowd
and sell drinks then it might be a steady job.

The work is in the preparation and rehearsing my parts what ever those might be.
It takes alot of work and time but it will pay off and I just found several more amps
I really love today and they happen to be Carol Ann amps.

I will be using those I really dig them alot this keeps the natives happy.
I might suck and clam up or be nervous but my sounds will be organized and sound good.

Im just human I make mistakes and sometimes loose my temper but I try to keep things balanced
by working on what makes me happy which is great tone and sound.

It takes alot of work to program it all but its well worth it.
I am constantly finding new sounds im pleased with .

Very pleased with the carol ann amps I found today !
Great sounds.

 

[Tex Axe]

Hi guys,

Cliff owns a Tucana 3 and as of this week also a Triptik 50W (a lovely one in a gorgeous figured maple head cab actually). The Triptik originally modeled is the Axe was borrowed from a friend of mine and is actually a little modified. I drive Cliff nuts because I'll send him schematics, but I hand tweak each one, so when he opens his own up, it invariably different to the schematic. I do this so they all sound releatively similar and consistent. When you are building in the real world, you are dealing with hundreds of components that all have tolerances ranging from +/-1% to +/-20% as well as the effects of lead dress and the huge differences in tubes out there. So anyone who says they clone a Dumble or whatever because they are using identical components and values are generally missing the point totally. I cloned 5 Trainwrecks's for actual TW owners back in 2007. The owners sent me their amps to check out. I never opened up one of them. I just played them then recreated the tones I was hearing.

As most of you know Cliff owns many of the amps modeled in his products.

Firstly, the Tucana isn't a Dumble clone. The OD series amps are a bit closer to that thing, but still not clones. I've worked on a lot of Dumbles and they really aren't my thing. I'm British, I come more from the Marshall camp.

I play out live every week in a popular local cover band. I designed the original Tucana 1 model back in 2006 for myself. It was never ever meant to be a model in the CA lineup. But a few guys heard it and liked it so I added it and it to the lineup as a stand alone model or an ugrade to an OD2/3. I then updated it in 2010 to the Tucana 2 and more recently the Tucana 3. It's always been the flagship model and the one where I try out new ideas and designs that often also get included eventually in the other models.
The amp is meant for a gigging session player / cover band player /wedding band player. It's power, functions, ease of use, clarity of the front panel controls on a dark stage, biasmon circuit and wide array of tones make it a very useable 'live' model, just as it was always meant to be even before it was just my own amp.

To answer the question on the Axe taking away sales because it has a good emulation of the model....is about as far from the truth as you can get. They are different technologies and have different uses for different people. I use the amp in situations I wouldn't use an Axe and I use the Axre in situations its impossible to use the amp. All are part of my tool kit. I don't get in to the whole tube vs digital BS. Use whatever is the most suitable for your project. Right tool for the job. People who are hard left or hard right on the subject and generally not very experienced players in the real world......or simply forum trouble makers / haters.

Triptik is a great amp playing it alot today . Certainly nothing wrong with the Marshall side of things sound wise.

I agree just because you can buy the same parts maker and value does not mean the amp will sound good or remotely the same.
Case in point #5 Dumble SSS 150

I heard that amp alot when it first came to Texas and at many different live dates and in person at the rehearsal space.
at the Time Eric rented a room with Van Wilks behind the Austin Opery house.
When Eric moved into the bigger room I rented his old spot from Van.

Eric had the large room Vans room was next too that and Stevie Rays room was next over.
Not a bad place to be renting if you were chasing sounds..

Anyway The Big D amp caught fire or started smoking in the studio and stopped making sound
so it was taken to Rays to try to be fixed and they called Dumble while I was standing there
to ask him how to fix it I said he is not going to tell you and they said HUSH they called him and he
had the amp sent back to him to repair it.

Evidently that required replacing the boards and transfomer and when it came back it did not sound the same.
Likely for the very reason mentioned -+1 or 20 tolerances at play as well the amp was sold back in early 90s
not sure when Carlos bought it but by then it had new boards in it.

I asked Brandon how he dealt with the dark purple epoxy in the amp how did he remove it
to clone the amp and he said there never was any in the amp.
He repaired some caps and the phase inverter he said.

I said thats strange because the amp was fully epoxied when it broke down while Eric owned it.
That explains why the amp does not sound the same.

Now it should not be advertised as such considering what came back was not voiced for Eric
it had brand new boards and a different transformer.

Im pretty certain the tone went with the transformer and at the very least it did when all the parts
and the transformer were changed.

I felt the clone was ok I used it to record and made up some of my own creations using the black tool box.

I have to revisit the dry recordings to re adjust too 18 Ive been at setting levels all day long.
When I did that im certain I changed something initially so I have to pull the original recordings back up
and re adjust them too 18.

Doing all the level adjustments first that took most of the day.
The local music scene is rather dead around these parts
many clubs closed down over the past 3 years here..

Im told the clubs in Oklahoma dont want it real loud either
buddy of mine plays bass and is booked solid only Country gigs
some rock mostly Country and mostly at conversation level.

So From Dallas too Durant Oklahoma I see very tiny amps on stage
if at all its been getting worse over the past 4 years
as a single father who raised a son alone most of my time was spent raising him
some people have to work and raise kids others are more experienced in the club scene.

I spent the past 24 years raising kids and clubbing or rock bands were not part of my real world.
That said it never stopped me from playing or chasing sounds.

Im very pleased with fractal audios products.

I bought a few tube amps along the way and some I was not very pleased with so I sold them
and when you spend 6500 dollars on a tube amp it should be exactly as advertised.

I did and then I found out the amp was nothing like the original so I sold it back too the person that sold it too me
only for 1000 less.. used.

I sold it because I felt misled. Just sold it back too the guy who claimed to begin with it was just like Ejs amp.
Its not and I told him why its not which evidently spurred him into selling his other one. oddly he bought this one back
and sold it right away then after it was sold he claimed the amp was broken on arrival.
30 something days later.

I spoke to Brandon first he said the amp had been sold to someone else already then he said the reverb wire was loose
and it could just be plugged back in then he said 2 tubes had been broken in shipment.
I said thats an insurance claim and the person that bought the amp back used his fed ex account # to ship to himself
if the tubes broke he needs to file a claim.

Then Brandon stated the amp was dusty inside two tubes were broken I offered to send 100 dollars to clean the amp
of any dust and asked that the person that built the amp install new tubes and test the amp for a week
and put it up against his best personal amp if it sounded great then all is good proceed on and send the amp on.
Brandon refused and voided the warranty of the amp and then had the amp sent back too Texas and the charges reversed
too my ebay account. That closed my ebay account and my paypal account.

Brandon claims the amp is broken and will take 1200 dollars to clean the amp and that did not include the new tubes which
100 dollars would not buy.

So Thats the treatment if you buy a 6500 dollar amp and it gets broken in shipment.
I was contacted by ebay and told it was fine for me to ship this person his amp using HIS fed ex account
I overnighted the amp too him and did not hear from the guy again till 30 days later when Brandon called me
and was quite nasty.

I just turned it over too an attorney. Now I did not buy this amp from Brandon I bought it used
2nd owner and I sold it back too the same owner who sold it again. THEN 30 days later sent that to Brandon as
broken on arrival.

I just cant seem to get a solid answer as too what is broken on the amp or who got the amp broken
2nd owner Brandon 4th owner ?

I have no control over fed ex dropping the amp nor do I have any control over someone else buying it
and Brandon voiding the warranty.
Brandon told ebay the amp could kill someone if they tried to play it.


So I have no choice but to hand that over too an attorney.
Which I did.

If the very person that built the amp wont put 4 tubes in it and rebias it then who can ?
Brandon said he was not just going to turn the amp on.
I said of course not with broken tubes you should put 4 new tubes in it and bias it to test it.

When it works just fine ship it cause I know its not an Eric Johnson #5 1:1 clone
how do I know that ?
I saw the original on the bench and put my finger on the epoxy.

Brandon by his own words stated the amp never had any epoxy in it.
That means Dumble replaced the boards and transformer.
when Eric got the amp back it did not sound the same so he did not buy it again.

This could be cleared up by Brandon speaking to Eric directly about it
and just asking Eric did the Dumble you owned have epoxy on the boards ?
yes or no
if the answer is Yes as I know it is then
how can Brandon claim the amp he offers to the public for 6500 dollars is 1:1 exactly like what Eric owned ?

Thats impossible. If ebay has a policy that states the buyer is protected and if he or she finds that the item
is not as described then they shall get their money back.

I feel the amp was not advertised honestly so I sold it back now I had no idea when I bought the amp
that the boards were changed in the original I just bought the amp in good faith as it being an exact clone.
1:1 its not.


That being said do I not have the same rights as any one else on ebay ?
If I bought the amp off ebay which I did and found out later its not as advertised
then sold it back how am I now expected to buy the amp again ?

I have nothing against Brandon but I know the amp is not exactly 1:1 too Ejs SSS 150 #5
its not the same because the boards and transformer were changed after it burned up.
It never sounded the same.

I bought the amp once now they are trying to force me to buy it again.
so I just hired an attorney.

He can contact Eric Johnson first then Brandon and everybody can get
in the real world.

I told Brandon to contact Eric Directly and ask him
you think he did that ?

No But he voided the warranty on that amp
and told Ebay it might kill someone if they tried to play it.

Thats odd I played and recorded the amp the entire month and very day
it was shipped overnight and it was fine.
Im not dead or burned up from it but Brandon told ebay this.

Needless to say I dont want a bludotone amp and I dont have anything personal against Brandon
I just suggested he change the way he advertises the amp for sale so that others are not misled.

It appears other people are now building this same amp touting it as Eric Johnsons #5
which is laughable considering the original burned up.

Wait till they get letters regarding this..I think Brandons panties are all twisted up because others are competing with him
and in reality there is no such thing as an Ej #5 SSS amp anymore because the boards were changed by Dumble himself
as well the transformer and it was not voiced for Eric a 2nd time.

Monkey See Monkey do.
evidently Wellagan amps as well as Amplified nation are building Ej models.

Thats amazing isnt it considering Dumble has the original boards ?

How on earth can these guys claim this ? $$$$$$ ?
4000-6500 each thats how.

Dont drink the kool aid.

 

[cgraci]

Dumble cleans are my got to cleans. I feel very clean when i play dumble cleans. Just like mr clean. get the point yet? I love it! just sayin.

 

[greiswig]

No offense, Tex Axe, but I've worked with and spoken to Brandon enough to get my hackles up when a stranger starts disparaging him repeatedly in public. Brandon is a class act in my experience. I think we get it: you're an expert on at least this particular amp, #105. And if you can share what you know about making the AxeFX sound like it, cool. But can I respectfully request that you take the lengthy essays offline for now, and maybe check back with us once a court has decided your claim, maybe in your own thread? Otherwise it's just repetitive he-said without the other side to offer defense. Plus it kinda hijacked the intent of this thread, IMO.

 

[Tex Axe]

i never claimed to be an expert on any amp Just stated that I happened to be standing over Erics original amp when it broke down the first time.

I spoke to Brandon after I bought the amp and he informed the that when he fixed Carlos amp for him the amp did not have any epoxy inside it
nor any signs of it being there to begin with and he fixed some caps and the phase inverter.

Then being the classy guy he is he started building them and selling them too the public.
I happened to buy mine used off ebay and it was advertised as an exact replica of Eric Johnsons amp.

Now By Brandons words he himself said the amp he worked on and repaired for Carlos never had any epoxy in it.
#5 SSS 150.

It was the 5th Steel string singer made and it was voiced for Eric in person by Dumble
the amp had dark purple epoxy in it throughout and thats the reason it could not be repaired
thus it was sold back and repaired and the boards and transformer were taken out of it.

Brandon can speak to Eric about this clear it up real fast.
If he is a classy guy and he built this amp who else should be trying to fix it
if it was supposedly broken on arrival during shipment ?

If The very person that built the amp cant put tubes in it to test it
thats odd isnt it ?

I suggested Brandon call Eric himself and resolve the facts here but he
for some reason does not want to hear the truth regarding the amp
he is touting as Eric Johnson model amp.

The thread was about Dumble amps I did not want anyone thinking that the
bludotone hpd 150 amp was an exact replica of Erics amp because its not.

I know its not just wanted to make that clear so no one was misled.
Since I owned the amp I recorded with it.

Some interest was shown and a comment was made about someone being too far left or right.
I happened to have owned 3 versions of these amps and commented.

I just wanted to make sure no one was misled by me into thinking for a second that
the HPD 150 SSS Clone was anything 1:1 of Eric Johnsons original Dumble steel string singer
and I did not want anyone dropping 6500 dollars and being misled like I was.

So that in case someone was thinking that they had no doubts about it.
The original #5 steel string singer broke down it caught fire
broke down and the boards and transformer were changed by Dumble
well before Carlos bought the amp.

Just so I was clear there I had read a comment about weather the axe affected sales of real tube amps
and so In case someone was misled I wanted to clarify how I know the original boards and transformer
were replaced was because I happened to be standing there the day it was on the bench.

Brandon can ask Eric Directly we plan too.
Im sure he is a classy guy and will fully believe the estate attorney handling the estate
he is the one who distributed the funds to buy the amp to begin with.
So they can discuss that.

I have been busy resetting 114 amps so I just read this.
did not mean to hijack a thread..

Just wanted to be clear the hpd and the #5 sss are not
the same amp they are in the same looking head enclosure
and they might have the same layout but they dont sound the same.

Thats by Eric's words directly too my face.
He passed on buying it back because it did not sound the same.

I am just giving what facts I do know about that particular amp
and it not in the axe fx because its not been done yet.

Maybe Cliff wants to buy the amp all it needs evidently from Brandons word is
tubes two tubes were broken in shipment Brandon said so I have no idea.

I dont want it because the amp is not what it was described as being.
The amp was sold as Eric Johnsons sss 150 replica and exactly like it.

I was misled but I sold it back too the person I bought it from
for 1000 less cause he is a classy guy too...

He turned around and sold it to someone else but claimed the amp was broken on arrival
and had Brandon claim that too ebay which took my account out.

Thats not very classy in my book.

But back too the thread at hand G3 and Cliffs impressions..

My impression of Cliffs ODS amp is it sounds very real to me
The Ford amp 102 sounds very accurate from the recordings ive heard.
The Trainwreck amp happens to sound very much like a Dumble 50
which I own right now. So close I just saved a patch and use it for both.

I have the el 34 version of the ODSR amp so its a bit like Cliffs
ODS but its not 6l6 it is an el34 version which has a different sound.

Using Cliffs ODS and putting 34s in vs 6l6 sounds like what I own.
That is another clone of an amp built to specs off 183 and supposedly
a hybrid of 183 and 102.

I was later told thats impossible and 183 is one amp and 102 is another
two different circuits entirely and one switch cant change the same amp into one or the other.
That said the amp is based mainly off 183 and el34 and it sounds more to that end of things
vs the 102 amp..

102 ojai amp seems to take off faster and leap into sustain mode in a hurry..
ive not played one but from the clips ive heard thats what it sounded like to me.

I like el 34s but I dont discount the 6l6 sound. The reverb which is on the ODSR
I own was taken from a currently worked Dumble and the owner told me that
on the phone..

I was trying to buy that ODSR if I could afford it but instead the one Quinn made
for me arrived and we dialed that amp in here in Texas
the other person who had the same amp built came here to help dial that amp in.
So it has known Dumble parts and old glass.

My thoughts there were it improved the amp 40% more with NOS Parts and Glass.
we had both sitting side by side one with previous reverb and mine with current upgraded verb
and the ODSR with 34s won that shootout..

The person that dialed mine in said mine sounded better reverb wise to him
he liked 6l6 and wanted his to sound more Ford like where as I wanted
something else and the 34s were in the original .
Since that time I learned my entire amp was based very closely too the ODSR
I was in line to buy.

That amp was very rare as it had recent Dumble additions too it and it was upgraded
I could not afford the original but I got a very very good Clone.

Now outside of sheer volume and air moving I can get the same sounds with the axe
if I sit there and dial them in side by side..

on playback I can hardly tell the difference.

Same with my 50 now if you are in the room with them sure you can tell one is tube amp and moving more air
but on playback its tough to tell apart..

Those are my findings on 3 different Dumble amps

sss 150 6550
Odsr 100 el34s
50 watt Dumble 6l6's

Im currently on 18 and find they got even more defined.
I think they sound very realistic even with both sitting in the room
and more so on playback.

It wont hurt Dumble amp sales because Dumble does not build for the public
he wont build a SSS amp you can buy one used for 250 grand or
take your chances with the clone builders who claim they know which voicing
Eric or Srv has but they dont know.

I cant see how it would hurt Dumbles sales he wont deal with the general public
I know I offered to send a showman too him with 6k inside it and was told
he could not help me there was not enough time and he only built for front line players.

That leaves the clone builders and they are not Dumble
as we read parts and tolerances are -+1 -- -+20 either way
and wont sound the same.

Even if you cloned one using the same parts and values
it wont sound the same..

now if you read one value wise and voltage wise
and bias wise and measured it then you can make something in the virtual realm
which is what g3 and 18 is correct ?

If you buy your own amp and do that evidently its perfectly legal to do.
I do that with my own tube amps so when the tubes go I can
rebias and reset new tubes and get them sounding back the way they were
if not better.

I think thats still legal in America.
last time I checked it was..

perhaps the Tone Police can help..

 

[Gasp100]

Stay tuned. Posted this originally in the FW18 thread, as FW 18 beta contains a Bludo 1X12 IR mix. ------ I am allowed to tell you Fractal Audio is planning to release this Bludo 1X12 Ultra Res IR and others from the IR session it came from in a future Cab Pack, probably Cab Pack 10. The Cab Pack will feature four boutique cabs I own. The four cabs used to make IRs for the forthcoming Cab Pack are: 1. Bogner 1X12 "Shiva" dual port with a Classic Lead 80 Celestion and a recessed back... I used this cab with a real Bogner Ecstasy 101b on 6th street in Austin; it sounds GREAT with the Bogner Shiva model and other modern boutique amps. As Bogner represents, this particular cab in real life fools mics into thinking it's a 4x12, it's a great cab design. 2. Bludotone 1X12 dual port with the WGS Blackhawk AlNiCo... the IR works great with the BludoOjai amp model and should work for lots of different Dumble-style amps or other similar boutique amps. Great cleans for Jazz as you will find in the 1x12 Bludo mix in FW 18 just released. 3. Bludotone 2x12 open oval back with G12-65H reissue Celestions... this is the same speaker cab design Robben Ford uses with his tan Dumble Overdrive Special. 4. Bludotone 2x12 open oval back with ASW (Austin Speaker Works) special-designed Bludotone speakers. We shot about 120 different IRs (roughly 30 for each cab, including rooms and cab back) at CUE Recording studios, using a Neve 1073 preamp and a few good guitar mics: M160, R121, MD421, SM57, and a U47FET. Counter-intuitively for some, we've found both 1X12 dual port cab IRs actually have more bottom end to them (dual bass ports!) than the 2x12 open oval backs do, but you can always add bottom end to any cab IR using a null mic and then dialing up the proximity knob in the Cab block. They will sit well in a mix "as is." This Cab Pack IR collection will hopefully fill out some space in existing cab IR land between the 4x12 Marshall or Metal-oriented IRs and Fender-type cab IRs out there... You'll be able to use Cab Lab to mix your own IRs from the individual mic IRs, whether Mark II or XL. There'll be a few sample mixes for each cab too to check out. That's what Cliff used for the Bludo 1x12 new factory cab in FW 18. Am sure these will be "coming soon" -- but there is no release date set yet...stay tuned!

Love those Shiva cabs, might need to grab this cab pack.

 

[Carol-AnnAmps]

I hope that you are not referring to me. (I'm pretty sure that you are not.)

My post was aimed at trying to understand the minds of amp builders. I did express my opinion of what it might look like from the outside to a consumer such as myself. I'm neither "hard left or hard right" on this subject.

Carol-AnnAmps, if you are referring to me, I will assure you that I am a very experienced player in the real world and mostly with real amps. I won't reveal my identity, but suffice it to say, I'm no amateur (however, I have been out of the spotlight for a few years now).

So, that being said, I'm not a trouble maker or hater, just a curious Axe-Fx owner with some legitimate questions. ;-)

I made a general comment, it wasn't aimed at anyone in particular. Anyone who knows me, knows if I have an issue with anyone, I have no problem making my comments very direct to that person. The attitude I was referring too is commonly seen on gear forums and is characterized by very strong opinions, argumentative posts and disrespect of people who don't agree with their opinion. After doing a search on the player for any recordings or clips, it either brings up nothing or worse. I have zero issue with players of any level, none of us were born able to play...but if someone wants to criticize a persons choice of gear, or become a self appointed expert, it helps if they have at least mastered a barred F chord. My playing, video clips and amplifiers are all out there in the public domain. It does at least help people validate if my opinion is worthy of consideration or if I suck.

Clearly, I work with a number of pro players and I've never seen that attitude. Most pro guys are completely comfortable in their own skin and understand the application of the different technologies, and I wouldn't doubt you are any different, whoever you are.....lol....

All joking aside, I totally understand anonymity on forums, especially if you are in the business or the public eye. The same type of people I was referring to can make it very difficult for any professional to engage on a forum. Even I see it. I'm a working guitar player too, but people think I always have an agenda because I own a business. It can get very frustrating.

On the flip side, without knowledge of who you are, people can also think you are just some delusional guy behind a computer living out a fantasy.

 

[laughyouraxeoff]

I made a general comment, it wasn't aimed at anyone in particular. Anyone who knows me, knows if I have an issue with anyone, I have no problem making my comments very direct to that person. The attitude I was referring too is commonly seen on gear forums and is characterized by very strong opinions, argumentative posts and disrespect of people who don't agree with their opinion. After doing a search on the player for any recordings or clips, it either brings up nothing or worse. I have zero issue with players of any level, none of us were born able to play...but if someone wants to criticize a persons choice of gear, or become a self appointed expert, it helps if they have at least mastered a barred F chord. My playing, video clips and amplifiers are all out there in the public domain. It does at least help people validate if my opinion is worthy of consideration or if I suck.

Clearly, I work with a number of pro players and I've never seen that attitude. Most pro guys are completely comfortable in their own skin and understand the application of the different technologies, and I wouldn't doubt you are any different, whoever you are.....lol....

I understand anonymity on forums, especially if you are in the business or the public eye. The same type of people I was referring to can make it very difficult for any professional to engage on a forum. Even I see it. I'm a working guitar player too, but people think I always have an agenda because I own a business. It can get very frustrating.

Yeah man I have to agree, I have seen the same things, it's cool to see a business owner this engaged with possible customers, that is the type of service I want when dealing with a business. To many business's in the music scene are flaky and lack in customer service, and so I alway want to support a business who is about quality and service. Seems you're both so kudo's.