FW 12 leave the lights on...I mean CAB block

tempus fugit

tempus fugit

Inspired
The Rigs"

RIG A
1 qty 100 watt Vintage Marshall JMP MV head

1 qty Lovepedal Kalamazoo OD pedal

I have Marshall set to slightly... more than crunch but not much more MASTER (5.5) PRE (7.0)

RIG B
AXFXII + MATRIX GT1000 ( 1ru)

BOTH RIGS RUNNING INTO SAME CAB:
Splawn 4x12 with Big Blocks

I'm running RIG A into one half of the cabinet and RIG B into the other half.
I'm using a Lehle Little Dual to direct the signal to either RIG A or RIG B

I gotta tell ya using the the stock BE or HBE with Basketweave (with some minor tweaks in lo cut for cab and minor tone tweaks on the basic AMP controls ) or YEK's "HEA swl.slp.mod yek" preset, it's really EZ to dial in a tone that replicates or sounds as good as the real thing. I haven't been able to dial in this exact Head's personality but I have been able to dial in a tone that is as good. It's really really close. Heck I can't even get two Marshalls to sound exactly the same.
And don't tell anyone, but sometimes I think the AFXII rig can sound better that the real live thing.
I've been going at this for about an hour.
I'm playing a combo of riff rock grooves and solo lines and repeating them over and over and then hitting the A/B box between rigs and it's like chasing a ghost.
Can I get the same growl on the low riffs?
Can I get the same depth and touch on the solos?
I am trying to prove to myself that the AFXII simply can't sound as good at full stage volume as the real thing going through the same cab in the same room. And I'm having trouble meeting that objective.
I don't know if my ears are totally EFFING with me right now, but that's kinda where I'm at.

Weird thing is ...I'm leaving the CAB SIMS ON.
When I take them out, I end up really having to try and herd cats/tweak dials to get a tone that contends with the real live Marshall.
I know I'm supposed to turn em off but ...
 
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to get the same pants moving volume i am finding that the AFXII + Matrix Rig has much more HISS associated with it than the real thing at the same volume.
 
Wonder if it could be an issue of gain staging? Input level on the Axe, Output levels to the matrix? Too much boosting of signals that should be hotter to begin with? Just an idea if you want to chase the hiss down.

Sounds like a really fun test you are running with really cool results!
 
thanks sam.
im nowhere near as proficient at getting into the weeds on this box as so many others are. i have noticed that i have the MV set about 2.0 numbers higher on the AFXII Amp than the real amp, in order to get the same volume and punch. And the real head seems to still have a fair amount to headroom to go.

The Matrix output is dimed as is the AFXII front panel output knob.
All other level settings in the box besides the basic amp block are stock.
I had resigned to using the AFXII just for recording and as an effects unit (mods and delays mainly) for live.
But Im getting closer to making this a real live rig
 
I'm no axe-pert either, but if you are diming the output levels you will get maximum hiss. Go back and make sure the instrument input level is optimized (io menu?), then make sure your preset is very hot, just below clipping the axe-fx output. You can do this by boosting amp level control until you hit red, then back off a bit. You can also use Utility menu to check input and output levels.

Maybe that can get you a hotter signal and you can turn down matrix output level a bit?
 
sam said:
I'm no axe-pert either, but if you are diming the output levels you will get maximum hiss. Go back and make sure the instrument input level is optimized (io menu?), then make sure your preset is very hot, just below clipping the axe-fx output. You can do this by boosting amp level control until you hit red, then back off a bit. You can also use Utility menu to check input and output levels.

Maybe that can get you a hotter signal and you can turn down matrix output level a bit?
Click to expand...
roger that. thank you
 
thanks to you both Sam and Kriig.
I understand that my issue with the hiss is NEWB stuff, but with those two items you suggested I am able to get MUCH MORE POWA and no basket of hissing cobras.
I have both the Output 1 of AFXII and the Matrix GT1000 set around 1 O'clock setting.
Global EQ Gain at 0.0 ( it had been a few db below)
I have AMP Mixer Level set at -10.2 it had been at -13. something.

And now thanks to Freman's video I am going to explore using the new fangled FW 12 controllers to set input drive and master vols settings per scene.
GEEZUZ this is an amazing box.
Feeling much, much better about using this live with real cabs ( and still leaving the CAB blocks on mind ya.)
(Gotta admit though the heads still look cooler.)
99ec565d-6079-4d4d-8de4-42d09607de5e.jpg
 
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Nice post mate. I've tried using cab sims with the matrix and guitar cab but have never managed to get good results. Would you be prepared to share your plexi preset so that I can have a play?

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk
 
yes. i don't have it on this machine right now but send me a PM please to remind me and I will try to get that exported for ya.
 
Just out of interest do you know the cab and the low cut settings in the cab block?

Cheers

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk
 
Not off the top of my head.
I've been experimenting with using global EQ, Cab Block and AMP EQ to get rid of the boomy and super sharp highs.
I tend to leave the cab block alone now and just use global EQ to get the signal into the right pocket.
 
Hmmmm, I'm sorry but I completely disagree with this. Using a cab block with guitar speakers will result in a highly colored sound. My guess is you have power amp sims turned off in the Axe-Fx or something else is not set correctly. But if it sounds good who am I to argue?
 
FractalAudio said:
Hmmmm, I'm sorry but I completely disagree with this. Using a cab block with guitar speakers will result in a highly colored sound. My guess is you have power amp sims turned off in the Axe-Fx or something else is not set correctly. But if it sounds good who am I to argue?
Click to expand...

I know it's not supposed to work like this, and it was quite unexpected.
But when I disable cabs in global settings it sounds very thin to me. And when I enable them it sounds much closer to the Marshall going into the cab. And when I dial in the basic amp tone (bass treb mid pres) on the AFX2 it's pretty much the same way I do the real thing.

I've checked, and I have power amp and cabinet modeling ON and ACTIVE respectively in Global.
I just picked up a second AFX2 and Matrix set, so I will try the recommended approach of turning off cabs and dialing in tone using my JMP as a reference point using the A/B method already discussed. I will see what differences are between the two AFX2 rigs.

And I am certainly open to suggestions about what other parameters I should check that may not be set correctly.
 
FractalAudio said:
Hmmmm, I'm sorry but I completely disagree with this. Using a cab block with guitar speakers will result in a highly colored sound. My guess is you have power amp sims turned off in the Axe-Fx or something else is not set correctly. But if it sounds good who am I to argue?
Click to expand...

Same thought come to my mind when reading this comparison. ... But like Cliff said, who am i ... if it sounds good and "right" to you ... go for it!
 
This is purely for demo purposes to share with others that were asking about the settings I am using while CAB modeling is "active" ...AND the signal is going through a Matrix GT1000 power amp and into a stock Marshall Cabinet loaded with black backed 75s.
In the original post, I was using a Splawn 4x12, but I am now working on presets for stock Marshall cabs. At some of the shows I play the venue provides a rented back line. So I am working on some patches tweaked for such occasions.

This is a basic Marshallesque low to medium gain tone that I was using while A/Bing between my vintage JMP 100 watt head and the AxeFx +Matrix each going into separate sides of the same stereo wired 4x12 cabinet. The goal was to get as close as possible to the JMP's characteristics, as I have it currently adjusted. ( I sometimes use a lovepedal kalamazoo OD pedal with the JMP for additional gain when needed.)
For this particular patch I was also experimenting with the PI FUZZ in a drive block. This is NOT a finished patch.
But the core of it (the Friedman BE and the Basketweave TV cab) form the basis for many of the presets I am currently tweaking.
"STONES" simply refers to a song in the set list not a reference to RS.
Both the JMP and AXE rigs were set to gig volume.

I typically dial down the GLOBAL EQ
drop 31 to -12
drop 63 to -11.35
drop 125 to -1.52
drop 16 to -9.0

Axe-Change - Download Preset - Freidman BE STONES - by tempus_fugit
 
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tempus fugit said:
I know it's not supposed to work like this, and it was quite unexpected.
But when I disable cabs in global settings it sounds very thin to me. And when I enable them it sounds much closer to the Marshall going into the cab. And when I dial in the basic amp tone (bass treb mid pres) on the AFX2 it's pretty much the same way I do the real thing.

I've checked, and I have power amp and cabinet modeling ON and ACTIVE respectively in Global.
I just picked up a second AFX2 and Matrix set, so I will try the recommended approach of turning off cabs and dialing in tone using my JMP as a reference point using the A/B method already discussed. I will see what differences are between the two AFX2 rigs.

And I am certainly open to suggestions about what other parameters I should check that may not be set correctly.
Click to expand...

Hey Tempus, I'm no expert either...but honest when I tell you, I have to leave my cab block on also. In my opinion, whether it's right or wrong, the tone is way too raspy with it off. It sizzles with more of a 10-12k abrasiveness that is just not for me. Using a cab block using ANY cab cures this for me to where the tone is warm the way my ears expect to hear it. I'm using a Marshall 100 watt 4x12 cab loaded with Greenbacks...so that may have something to do with it, but I'm perfectly happy with my live tone while having the cab and amp sims in the on position.

Also, the hiss thing...I notice some hiss when I use the XLR outs in my AxeFx. I always use my pre-amps in that way. However, the Axe works way better for me when using the 1/4 outs as I believe there is a noise eliminator present when you use those jacks or something. Or maybe it's a hum eliminator? Whatever it is, the 1/4's are what I'm using into my power amp (Rocktron Velocity 300) and I'm completely happy. :)
 
With all respect: If this works for you - and at the end of the day, that`s all what counts - good. Go for it. But when it comes to comparison beetween a Marshall JMP MV head into your 4x12 cabinet vs. a Friedman BE + Basketweave IR + Global EQ into the same cabinet to match that (whatever you mean with same/similiar "characteristic") this is to me something like beetween "digging in the dirt" and "trial and error":

1) Wouldn`t be a Plexi Sim a better pre-matched sim to the actual head?
2) You filter the friedman through two more EQ stages than the actual head (Global EQ: Filter1; Basketweave: Filter2) - at the end the sim and the actual head goes into filter3: the real cabinet.

Maybe it is possible to filter the hell out andcompensate different filter stages against each other that at the end the magic happens that the resualt ends up in anything comparable to the JVM head. Nothing against that - if it works and if the resualt satisfy you. Good! But a comprehensible course of action to compare two signal chains and find out in which detailed department of the signal chain differences beetween both soundchains happen and surgically compensate those differences to get the best match is IMHO another way than yours ;) Sorry ;) :star: This is a bit to crazy to me ;)
 
Danny Danzi said:
Hey Tempus, I'm no expert either...but honest when I tell you, I have to leave my cab block on also. In my opinion, whether it's right or wrong, the tone is way too raspy with it off. It sizzles with more of a 10-12k abrasiveness that is just not for me. Using a cab block using ANY cab cures this for me to where the tone is warm the way my ears expect to hear it. I'm using a Marshall 100 watt 4x12 cab loaded with Greenbacks...so that may have something to do with it, but I'm perfectly happy with my live tone while having the cab and amp sims in the on position. Also, the hiss thing...I notice some hiss when I use the XLR outs in my AxeFx. I always use my pre-amps in that way. However, the Axe works way better for me when using the 1/4 outs as I believe there is a noise eliminator present when you use those jacks or something. Or maybe it's a hum eliminator? Whatever it is, the 1/4's are what I'm using into my power amp (Rocktron Velocity 300) and I'm completely happy. :)
Click to expand...
Yes I pretty much discovered the cab effect by accident. I was going back and forth between the rigs and was double checking to see if I had turned off cabs in Global and hit the wheel into Active
And thought wow that sounds much closer to what I'm going for. And just kept going from there.
I tackled this hiss later that day with the advice of others on the thread. Mainly adjusting the amp level value. Coincidentally I too am using the 1/4 jacks. But thanks for the tips.
PS I REALLY enjoyed your comments on dialing in tones and EQing that were posted in the most recent beta thread.
 
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