Fuzz Face cloning

G

guitarnerdswe

Fractal Fanatic
Since my old thread got lost in the forum restore, I will start a new one. Hope it's ok guys!

Does anyone have any tips or suggestions about getting a good Face Face sound out of the Axe? Does anybody know how should set the different advanced parameters in the drive block? If I could read the schematics and figure it out, I would, but since I can't :mrgreen:
 
Saved this quote from javajunkie from the old thread ;)

javajunkie said:
Try, hard fuzz, drive a little above 12:00, slew 1.73, bias .17, maybe roll the hicut back some, GE Diode clip type, use the volume knob to roll distortion in and out, turn the level up a bit.

This is about as close as I've got
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Personally I've never tried a fuzz face, but I tried those settings and it makes a great sounding drive anyway! :)
 
I'm pretty sure Cliff already has the FF schematics, but just in case, here's a link to pictures that show the innards in stunning detail. Grab'em while they're here, it's an ebay page.

And BTW, which would you rather have ? A $2000 Axe-FX that comes very close to the real thing, or the real thing for $2300 ? :shock: :? :roll: ;) Crazy...
 
David dP said:
I'm pretty sure Cliff already has the FF schematics, but just in case, here's a link to pictures that show the innards in stunning detail. Grab'em while they're here, it's an ebay page.

And BTW, which would you rather have ? A $2000 Axe-FX that comes very close to the real thing, or the real thing for $2300 ? :shock: :? :roll: ;) Crazy...
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OT: what amazes me is how simple the insides of those are. I mean, really, I'd think the mojo on those things that separates the "great ones" from the "okay ones" comes down to spec variance on the few caps/resistors on the tiny board. And maybe the pots too.
 
Chad said:
David dP said:
I'm pretty sure Cliff already has the FF schematics, but just in case, here's a link to pictures that show the innards in stunning detail. Grab'em while they're here, it's an ebay page.

And BTW, which would you rather have ? A $2000 Axe-FX that comes very close to the real thing, or the real thing for $2300 ? :shock: :? :roll: ;) Crazy...
Click to expand...

OT: what amazes me is how simple the insides of those are. I mean, really, I'd think the mojo on those things that separates the "great ones" from the "okay ones" comes down to spec variance on the few caps/resistors on the tiny board. And maybe the pots too.
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Basically the germanium transistors that were manufactured at that time and nostalgia.
 
This stuff is like religion to me. Humans need beliefs to feel good (note : I'm not an alien, though). At the end of the day what we are taking about is technology.

What was done in 69 was with what was was available then, discrete components on a PCB, and two transistors, because they did not have anyting else and it had to be cheap to manufacture. The guys who designed it never thought that 35 years later this would sell for 2.300 $ !
Leo Fender added a third pickup on the strat because he needed a marketing argument to compete with Gibson, did not even know of the "out of phase" sound when you have pickups 3+4 together.

Who would say that it's better to run a spreadsheet on an apple II than on on a modern computer, or that cars build in the 70s or that fridges designed in the 50s are better than the ones we have now ?

There is a mystical behaviour with many guitar players, that the perfect tone was invented some time ago when in reality it was just dealing with the technical limitations of the time. The whole idea of electric guitar is about modifying the signal chain, and then the technology limitations of era n becomes the mojo of era n+1. Our sound is in our brains, and fingers. Jeff Beck would still sound like Jeff Beck even playing an ES 335 on a Jazz Chorus.

Well, maybe i'm going a little bit too far to make my point, but "magic" tones comes from your understanding of the signal chain and how obsessed you are in tweaking your sound. Not sure my train of thoughts is very easy to follow, it's kinda late in Paris, but it's just my opinion.
 
Reminds me of a witty signature line I saw on another music forum somewhere, something along the lines that musical gear is the only technology that got it exactly right the first time and hasn't improved since.
 
chase said:
Reminds me of a witty signature line I saw on another music forum somewhere, something along the lines that musical gear is the only technology that got it exactly right the first time and hasn't improved since.
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That's classic... gotta love it!
 
This sound has been haunting me for a long time. I keep thinking that if I just wait a little longer Cliff will add it to the Axe-Fx. I've about given up on it, and I think I'll be ordering a Sunface before long.

D
 
Another tip. If you use the hard fuzz, keep the drive level down. It has WAY more gain than a fuzz face.
 
I actually really quite like the Axe's fuzz model. It's nicely tweakable and it definitely has a different flavour to it than other fuzzes. Can I get close to a FF ? Never tried it. I've got pretty much all the original hardware fuzzes I need and just use them in conjunction with the Axe. The Axe takes pedals so well, there's really no reason trying to do everything inside the Axe imho.
 
VegaBaby said:
I actually really quite like the Axe's fuzz model. It's nicely tweakable and it definitely has a different flavour to it than other fuzzes. Can I get close to a FF ? Never tried it. I've got pretty much all the original hardware fuzzes I need and just use them in conjunction with the Axe. The Axe takes pedals so well, there's really no reason trying to do everything inside the Axe imho.
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I never complained about the fuzz sounds in the Axe-FX, but the lack of a FF does leave you scratching your head. We have a model of a Boss Metal Zone, but no FF :? ?

I don't think the Axe should have everything in it, quite the contrary actually. The FF should be in there though IMO. It is an essential building block of a lot of classic tones, and it is certainly different enough than everything else in the Axe-fx to warrant it's inclusion. A lot of other classic fuzz sounds can be achieved with the stuff already in there, but you can't really get a great FF sound out of what's there.

D
 
dk_ace said:
VegaBaby said:
I actually really quite like the Axe's fuzz model. It's nicely tweakable and it definitely has a different flavour to it than other fuzzes. Can I get close to a FF ? Never tried it. I've got pretty much all the original hardware fuzzes I need and just use them in conjunction with the Axe. The Axe takes pedals so well, there's really no reason trying to do everything inside the Axe imho.
Click to expand...

I never complained about the fuzz sounds in the Axe-FX, but the lack of a FF does leave you scratching your head. We have a model of a Boss Metal Zone, but no FF :? ?

I don't think the Axe should have everything in it, quite the contrary actually. The FF should be in there though IMO. It is an essential building block of a lot of classic tones, and it is certainly different enough than everything else in the Axe-fx to warrant it's inclusion. A lot of other classic fuzz sounds can be achieved with the stuff already in there, but you can't really get a great FF sound out of what's there.

D
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I can't argue with that statement. It is like not putting a fender Bassman in as an amp model. It was the basis for other drives to follow.
 
dk_ace said:
VegaBaby said:
I actually really quite like the Axe's fuzz model. It's nicely tweakable and it definitely has a different flavour to it than other fuzzes. Can I get close to a FF ? Never tried it. I've got pretty much all the original hardware fuzzes I need and just use them in conjunction with the Axe. The Axe takes pedals so well, there's really no reason trying to do everything inside the Axe imho.
Click to expand...

I never complained about the fuzz sounds in the Axe-FX, but the lack of a FF does leave you scratching your head. We have a model of a Boss Metal Zone, but no FF :? ?

I don't think the Axe should have everything in it, quite the contrary actually. The FF should be in there though IMO. It is an essential building block of a lot of classic tones, and it is certainly different enough than everything else in the Axe-fx to warrant it's inclusion. A lot of other classic fuzz sounds can be achieved with the stuff already in there, but you can't really get a great FF sound out of what's there.

D
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I hear ya. Maybe I'm not toooooo bothered by the lack of it because I've yet to hear a digital simulation of a FF that actually sounds like a FF. And what should Cliff model ? Si or Ge ? I've played soooo many FFs over the years to really know how different they all sound. Even the type of battery used in a FF makes a difference. Having the circuit might not be enough. Maybe this could actually be a challenge for Cliff ;) ...


And regarding that it's as important as certain amps...well then we need to have a Tonebender in there as well which is probably as important to the history of fuzzes as the FF itself...


p.s. as you can tell by my avatar...I would be the last to have anything agains a FF addition ;)
 
Whilst I understand the requests for current amps, I also agree that the FF & TB are historically important.

Just my 2 bob's worth.
 
Agreed. IMO, throw the Metal Zone model out of the Axe-Fx and get a good Fuzz Face model in there. I'm really curious WHY the Boss Metal Zone got into the Axe-Fx in the first place. Wasn't it created as a poor man's (teen guitarists just starting out with $0) metal sound instead of having to buy a big metal stack of amps? Regardless, it's awful....just awful. With all the well modelled high end metal amps in the Axe-Fx now, WHY put a Metal Zone in there? Pointless. You might as well put in Line6's original model of the XT's "Dual Rectumfryer" if someone really wanted a garbage metal sound. :lol:

Give us the Fuzz Face, please!
 
Nice to see that so many want a Fuzz Face too, makes me feel less bad for asking for yet another thing in the Axe :mrgreen: But I agree with many others, a Fuzz Face should really be in there.
 
BlueLotus said:
Agreed. IMO, throw the Metal Zone model out of the Axe-Fx and get a good Fuzz Face model in there. I'm really curious WHY the Boss Metal Zone got into the Axe-Fx in the first place. Wasn't it created as a poor man's (teen guitarists just starting out with $0) metal sound instead of having to buy a big metal stack of amps? Regardless, it's awful....just awful. With all the well modelled high end metal amps in the Axe-Fx now, WHY put a Metal Zone in there? Pointless. You might as well put in Line6's original model of the XT's "Dual Rectumfryer" if someone really wanted a garbage metal sound. :lol:

Give us the Fuzz Face, please!
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Well...don't get me wrong, I don't like or use MZs, but some famous users actually include Clapton and Prince :shock:
 
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