Frustrating situation with using Axe-FX at an open Blues jam

CyberFerret

CyberFerret

Power User
I must clarify: NOT frustration with the Axe-FX unit in itself, but the situation that we were in.

So, we go along to the monthly open Blues jam in town - the only 'regular' gigging I am doing these days. Normally take my guitar only and just plug into whatever amp is available during my call up. Generally, I only get to choose between a couple of really crappy solid state amps, and the last time, my amp was not even mic'd through the FOH system. Bleah.

This time, I decided to take my 2 week old Axe-FX unit. When I got there, the soundman said "Sure, no problem, we have a DI unit at the front of the stage, you can plug your Axe-FX into that and it will come straight through to the desk".

Great! I thought, but when I went up to plug it in, the guy running the open jam said "No way, we only have 2 foldback wedges on stage that ALL the foldback comes through, and we don't want roaring guitars coming through the wedges as we want to hear the vocals clearly. Fair point I guess.

In the end, I had to plug the Axe-FX into the 'Effects In' of a crappy old solid state Randall amp, and use that as the power amp. And again, that amp had an old dodgy mic on it and it wasn't beamed through to the FOH clearly.

I was standing right in front of it though, so I could hear my guitar, but it was extremely trebly and thin. Nothing like when I use my Mesa/Boogie DC-10 as a power amp in my home studio.

Apologies for the long rant, but I'd like to know if anyone has any suggestions as to how I can get around this problem at the next open mic. Should I just bite the bullet and drag my HEAVY DC-10 along next time? I was hoping to avoid killing my back once I got the Axe.

Or should I look at getting a small powered wedge and use that as my foldback AND mic that up to the FOH system? Would splitting the output work better in this case, if I can route a lower signal to the FOH system and perhaps a hotter signal to a house amp as my foldback? I'd appreciate any suggestions from more experienced players.
 
If I were you, I would probably go for an atomic active wedge which I could use as my personal monitor (you could either have it in front of you or behind you standing vertically) and from the wedge I would be able to send a balanced out signal to FOH (you don't need a DI, just an empty slot in the console).
Of course there are many frfr wedge solutions, but since I got my atomic wedge, I've been really happy with the sound and feel you get from it and that's why I would recommend it.
 
Option 2: invest in a small powered speaker. Monitor yourself with that; it can also be your backline if for some reason they won't let you into FOH. Then send Output 1 to FOH, and use Output 2 for your monitor. That gives you independent level control for both feeds, controlled from the front panel of your Axe-FX.
 
Rex said:
Option 2: invest in a small powered speaker. Monitor yourself with that; it can also be your backline if for some reason they won't let you into FOH. Then send Output 1 to FOH, and use Output 2 for your monitor. That gives you independent level control for both feeds, controlled from the front panel of your Axe-FX.
Click to expand...

+1

FBT Verve 8ma comes to mind. I also had several bad experiences with monitoring systems that were offered by the event promoter. So I decided to get independent. Now my little Verve amplifies the AxeFX unless there is a really good monitoring system at the venue. Problem solved.
 
Well, I wonder why the guitar would have to roar through the monitors....Are there just 2 mains and NO monitors? If there are separate mains and monitors then it should be simple to set a reasonable amount of guitar in the mix. My first fear would be that the patches that you have prepared for the boogie wouldn't be great for frfr.
 
I guess that is nothing that you can buy. To be prepared for any situation whatever you should programm a lot of different sounds, including too thin sounds and too fat sounds. So you can call up one that fits in the mix or fits to the amp whatever comes. To make these reserves usable (you need to find the right sound again long time after you created it) you should store it in a special system like saying begin with the thin ones and getting fatter...

For jazzy cleans I like the FAS clean. It has a round and full basis but has clear highs too, so it's easy to get a full sound without muddyness.
 
CyberFerret said:
..., but when I went up to plug it in, the guy running the open jam said "No way, we only have 2 foldback wedges on stage that ALL the foldback comes through, and we don't want roaring guitars coming through the wedges as we want to hear the vocals clearly ....
Click to expand...

I was commenting on another forum about something similar. I think this phenomenon is VERY difficult to overcome in the "Blues" community. That's where the opinions of "vintage" gear has extra mojo is still WIDELY held. Anything that even hints at new, or used updated technology is largely panned ( not 100%, but certainly a majority of the time ) ....

I don't have any suggestions to you for getting around it, other than be patient and maybe ask again to go direct, but have a back up and tell them if they don't like it ..., you'll switch it out after a couple of songs ?

Keep us posted on how it all works out !

Good Luck !
 
+1 on getting your own powered monitor wedge. Being in control of your own stage sound is a luxury you should not deny yourself. A well-built wedge like the Verve 8ma or 12ma is perfect for your needs IMO.

As for FOH in that situation, clearly they have microphones on stage (sitting in front of crappy solid state amps). Just unplug the mic cable from the back of the mic and plug it into your DI box. You have one of those, right? Let it attenuate the line level signal coming out of your Axe-FX down to mic level and the sound guy won't have to change a thing at his board. In fact, you probably don't even have to tell him you're doing it. Easy as crime! ;)
 
Hey everyone! OP again here. Thanks for all the immensely useful advice.

Looks like a powered wedge is the way to go here. Really like the looks of the Verve 8ma that some of you are using.

For those that have them: Does it pass the 'one trip' test? i.e. Axe-FX slung over the shoulder in a rack bag, guitar in one hand and wedge in the other, couple of hundred metres and perhaps a stair case from the car to the gig?
 
Yes, if you get the soft case for it, which has a handle. The 8ma is small, but dense (check the specs for exact weight), so don't think it's a super light-weight option. But I'm a little dude, and have no trouble with a guitar on my back, duffel with gear in one hand, and 8ma in the other.
 
I have a rack with Axe-Fx + 3 kg digital power amp. It's 15 kg (33 lbs) all together.
This one plus a 1x12 box is light enough for me to carry arround to any session.
 
Hi CyberFerret,

I have the same setup (AxeFX Ultra, Gordius and Verve 8") and faced comparable situations.
Although this setup is the best sounding & most versatile you can get (at this weight, these days...)
my advice would be to skip it and use a (better sounding) small combo that you bring yourself or use whatever is there.

I consider the Axe as a great tool when you have the time to set it up properly and make sure that it sounds good on your monitor and FOH. I play blues & other styles and understand the mindset of "guitar straight to the amp", but also have a bunch of effects.

I use the fx when I play a set that I can prepare. But for a blues jam, I usually don't need flanger, phaser, pitch shift, harmonizer and 5 different emulations of high gain amps.

Midi cables, pedal boards, power plugs, Level differences, etc. - it's not rocket science but you need a couple more minutes to set up stuff compared to just plugging into an already miced up amp, and sometimes this is too long in a jam that's up & running.

It's just a jam - not a gig. Convince the crowd with your playing - not your toys.

...from somebody with a lot of toys ;-)
 
At the open jams around Dallas, jammers are strongly encouraged (in some cases absolutely required) to use the host band's amps. In a host situation, I would not allow jammers to bring up their own amps or even to use their stompboxes, because the dead time created when the player sets up and tweaks all that crap is a crowd-killer. If you just can't play without "your sound," the thing to do is to find your own gig. :lol:
 
multivir said:
Hi CyberFerret,

I have the same setup (AxeFX Ultra, Gordius and Verve 8") and faced comparable situations.
Although this setup is the best sounding & most versatile you can get (at this weight, these days...)
my advice would be to skip it and use a (better sounding) small combo that you bring yourself or use whatever is there.

I consider the Axe as a great tool when you have the time to set it up properly and make sure that it sounds good on your monitor and FOH. I play blues & other styles and understand the mindset of "guitar straight to the amp", but also have a bunch of effects.

I use the fx when I play a set that I can prepare. But for a blues jam, I usually don't need flanger, phaser, pitch shift, harmonizer and 5 different emulations of high gain amps.

Midi cables, pedal boards, power plugs, Level differences, etc. - it's not rocket science but you need a couple more minutes to set up stuff compared to just plugging into an already miced up amp, and sometimes this is too long in a jam that's up & running.

It's just a jam - not a gig. Convince the crowd with your playing - not your toys.

...from somebody with a lot of toys ;-)
Click to expand...

+1.. I love my Axe rig but I wouldn't bring it to a blues jam.
 
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