FRFR Upgrade

jamesblonde

jamesblonde

Member
I am looking to upgrade from my headrush FRFR but before I do, I was curious if anyone else went a similar route as me (ie started out with a cheap FRFR then upgraded). Anybody else start with a headrush then buy a more expensive FRFR and notice THAT MUCH of a difference? I know on paper that all FRFRs should technically sound the same because they’re all flat but I find it hard to believe that a $300 headrush sounds as good as a $1000+ xitone, matrix or atomic CLR monitor. Curious to hear any/all thoughts!
 
I had a Friedman ASM12 as my first IR, really liked it for the most part but got a Laney IRT-X as a lightweight option. Sounded good but boxey

As everyone was rating CLR's I managed to get one and was really impressed so sold the Friedman, still would like to try the 10" though
I've since got another CLR, both were bought off of eBay here in England. One is an early one and the other the later one with the lighter power amp, can't really say if there's any difference in tone.

I got a Yamaha DX10 as the "rehearsal" cab and it's great, though I am tempted with the MF10's
 
ak301 said:
I had a Friedman ASM12 as my first IR, really liked it for the most part but got a Laney IRT-X as a lightweight option. Sounded good but boxey

As everyone was rating CLR's I managed to get one and was really impressed so sold the Friedman, still would like to try the 10" though
I've since got another CLR, both were bought off of eBay here in England. One is an early one and the other the later one with the lighter power amp, can't really say if there's any difference in tone.

I got a Yamaha DX10 as the "rehearsal" cab and it's great, though I am tempted with the MF10's
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So in your opinion, the CLRs are the best FRFRs you’ve tried?
 
jamesblonde said:
So in your opinion, the CLRs are the best FRFRs you’ve tried?
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Depends on what you want. The best FRFR ist the best that you like the most.
I can just recommend to try out as much as you can to find the one that is right for you.
Personally I tried more than 30 different FRFR Speakers including CLR, Xitone, Friedman Mission etc etc and I clearly prefer the Red Sound MF10 and/or Elis 8 over all of them.
But that’s personal preference. The CLR and Xitone are Great Speakers as well and you can’t get wrong with them.



 
Sashman said:
Depends on what you want. The best FRFR ist the best that you like the most.
I can just recommend to try out as much as you can to find the one that is right for you.
Personally I tried more than 30 different FRFR Speakers including CLR, Xitone, Friedman Mission etc etc and I clearly prefer the Red Sound MF10 and/or Elis 8 over all of them.
But that’s personal preference. The CLR and Xitone are Great Speakers as well and you can’t get wrong with them.



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I know these are the newest contenders but they seem a little….small to me (for lack of a better word). Can these get up in volume to compete with a loud drummer?
 
jamesblonde said:
I know these are the newest contenders but they seem a little….small to me (for lack of a better word). Can these get up in volume to compete with a loud drummer?
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I play the smaller Elis8 ones in a rock and heavy band, no issues here.
The other guitarist plays a Orange Rockverb with a Orange 4x12 and the Red Sound cut through the mix like a hot knife trough butter.
They are loud as hell and have serious punch.
I did choose them against CLR etc. for a reason.
The Video from Sukh (Zenrigs) does explain this very well, better than I could.
 
Sashman said:
I play the smaller Elis8 ones in a rock and heavy band, no issues here.
The other guitarist plays a Orange Rockverb with a Orange 4x12 and the Red Sound cut through the mix like a hot knife trough butter.
They are loud as hell and have serious punch.
I did choose them against CLR etc. for a reason.
The Video from Sukh (Zenrigs) does explain this very well, better than I could.
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That’s crazy! I used to use a rockerverb with a 2x12 so you can understand my resistance to downsizing. I just think it’s unreasonable that a small 8 or 10 inch speaker can pump out as much power as an actual guitar cab. But if you say so… and you’re not the only one! Do you use the elis8s in stereo or just one speaker?
 
I tried a few FRFR cabs and at the end, I really like my Mission Engineering Gemini II cab the best. It's stereo and you're able to mix in FRFR/CAB through the Gem itself. It's just heavy as heck.

Others I have are: Friedman ASM12 (too dark) , Roland keyboard amp (meh), XItone (awesome), CLR (not as awesome as Xitone). My Xitone wedge is my number two and used for smaller venues
 
I had a couple of Headrush 108's a couple of years back. I was just getting into the FRFR thing and then I started to go down the rabbit hole a little. And still am to be honest. I was going between the Headrush wedges and using my Boogie 1x12 cab along with a Matrix power amp. I then decided to go full FRFR and sold one of the HR's.

I then got a Matrix FR12 Passive cab I would use with the Matrix and that sounded really good. I ended up selling the other HR I had and kept the Matrix for a while. Shortly after getting the FM3 I was on the hunt for a portable power amp to use with the Matrix cab and had the Powerstage 170 and the 200. I never really got on with those so I ended up selling the 170 and buying the 200 and then eventually returning the 200.

After that I decided to stupidly sell the Matrix cab and power amp and just use cabs with a built in power amp. I bought a couple of Friedman ASC10's which were also very good but a little dark sounding. I ended up selling those a few months later when the Red Sound Elis 8's were announced and bought a stereo bundle of those. And then eventually I bought the MF10 stereo bundle after that as I was blown away by the Elis 8's. They do sound really good!

This week though I ended up selling off a few pieces of gear and I've bought a Mission Gemini 1 powered cab. I was gonna get a passive Gemini 2 to use with the Matrix GT1000 (Which I've bought again lol) but the size and weight put me off so I went with the Gemini 1.I thought when the FM9 finally turns up in Europe I don't want to have a separate power amp for it unless I'm using my Axe and have my rack with me. So a powered cab is the way to go. Do I really need the Matrix now? Probably lol when I end up buying a Gemini 1 passive cab lol.

So far so good, I've only had it a couple of days and plan to play through it some more this weekend. But it's definitely more cab like compared to the Red Sounds. And the size is definitely big enough.

The answer to your question is yes they do make a difference, paying more for a decent FRFR will definitely sound a lot better. Well that's my opinion anyway!

Hope that helps!
 
I have 4 atomic CLR's and recently bought 2 headrushes 108. The CLR's are better offcourse (more neutral) and stay good on higher volume, price / quality the headrushes are VERY nice and easy to bring along. If you want the best go upgrade, otherwise the headrushes are fine.
 
Paulg2uk said:
I had a couple of Headrush 108's a couple of years back. I was just getting into the FRFR thing and then I started to go down the rabbit hole a little. And still am to be honest. I was going between the Headrush wedges and using my Boogie 1x12 cab along with a Matrix power amp. I then decided to go full FRFR and sold one of the HR's.

I then got a Matrix FR12 Passive cab I would use with the Matrix and that sounded really good. I ended up selling the other HR I had and kept the Matrix for a while. Shortly after getting the FM3 I was on the hunt for a portable power amp to use with the Matrix cab and had the Powerstage 170 and the 200. I never really got on with those so I ended up selling the 170 and buying the 200 and then eventually returning the 200.

After that I decided to stupidly sell the Matrix cab and power amp and just use cabs with a built in power amp. I bought a couple of Friedman ASC10's which were also very good but a little dark sounding. I ended up selling those a few months later when the Red Sound Elis 8's were announced and bought a stereo bundle of those. And then eventually I bought the MF10 stereo bundle after that as I was blown away by the Elis 8's. They do sound really good!

This week though I ended up selling off a few pieces of gear and I've bought a Mission Gemini 1 powered cab. I was gonna get a passive Gemini 2 to use with the Matrix GT1000 (Which I've bought again lol) but the size and weight put me off so I went with the Gemini 1.I thought when the FM9 finally turns up in Europe I don't want to have a separate power amp for it unless I'm using my Axe and have my rack with me. So a powered cab is the way to go. Do I really need the Matrix now? Probably lol when I end up buying a Gemini 1 passive cab lol.

So far so good, I've only had it a couple of days and plan to play through it some more this weekend. But it's definitely more cab like compared to the Red Sounds. And the size is definitely big enough.

The answer to your question is yes they do make a difference, paying more for a decent FRFR will definitely sound a lot better. Well that's my opinion anyway!

Hope that helps!
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I appreciate such a comprehensive response!
 
I have used most of these FRFR's and they can work really well. A solution I have been going with for a while now - which could be slightly more money, but really is the best of both worlds is to have a modular cabinet built. I had one designed by Raezer's Edge. I can mount a power head inside and also use this as a regular guitar cab without the head.

This solution, I have found is a lot more error free from trying to change presets to fit the FRFR you are using.

I used a 600 watt acoustic image head for my 112, and now thinking of creating a 212 with either the same head or a different one.
I suppose you could create the same setup with any head cabinet design you would want.

Again the advantage to me is you get a much better sound, which is less PA speaker-like.

The total cost of this set up was about 1000 US. But again this head has way more options than a class D insert, and a ton of power.

I also have a eq section if I need it, 2 speaker outs a direct out. I can use this head with any cabinet as a regular power amp or with this set up as a combo solution.

So to answer the question does cost matter? - I would say it can depending on what you want for sound.

Can a PA speaker like a QSC K12 or a FRFR speaker work great - it sure can. But with a set up like this, it easy enough to build a modular insert - like a rack and mount what ever head you want in there. What comes to mind is the power stage 700. If you had this cab built with a 19'' rack insert, you could then mount any head that fit the dimension you want - like a Matrix or a PS 700 for example. If you need more speakers, then just add a 4x12 or something bigger.

To me there are some many really great sound solid state power amps out there that can do the flat thing really well that it makes sense to invest a few more dollars and create a speaker you can actually use.

The last thing I will say is this box I have also found creating presets in the studio and then trying them live with this head/combo has been really transparent. I don't have to try to keep adjusting them to the box and focus more on playing.
 

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I didn't like my CLR and sold it on after some weeks though all the raving about it everywhere. It is not for everyone. The CLR displays pretty flat over the whole range, true, and you also can use it for tweaking your presets, they translate well to the PA. But the feeling as a monitor on stage didn't please me. It did not punch in my face. Felt like a studio monitor, a giant studio monitor though.
I prefer stuff that punches like a guitar cab even if that means it can't be perfectly flat.
 
I started with the Headrush 112, and found it to be very boomy and somewhat harsh.

I switched to the ELIS.8 pair, and really liked their sound and size, but found that on a small, crowded, stage I couldn't tip them back far enough to get them to fire at my ears, which is my only complaint with them.

I replaced those with a pair of the EV PXM-12MP, which have a similar sound, but more choices of angles, along with the ability to store EQ curves. They're plenty loud, a little bigger than the ELIS.8, and more easily found than the ELIS.8 if you're in North America. I'm a big fan of EV's sound, and these definitely deliver crisp highs and solid lows. I added additional feet to the side so when I set them down after carrying them the finish won't get torn up. I also added feet to one of the angles so I can more easily use it too, so I can get 90º, 45º and 30º-ish angles I think they worked out to.
PS - The EVs run circles around the Headrush 112.
 
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I dialed in my Axe II with my Mesa Black Shadow (Cel 80) cabs and old MosValve power amp. No cab sims. Sounds good.

Chose an Atomic CLR after doing some research, made new presets for the Axe II, cab sims on... wow!

Got the Axe III, and another CLR because I liked it that much. Now I’m fine tuning the III with the Atomic to ‘audition’ for rehearsal before I take it to a gig. It already sounds awesome... but I’m a perfectionist lol.

Bottom line... I went with a highly rated FRFR when I decided to try that route. I’m quite happy with my purchase.
 
I went from a Matrix Q12 to the CLR. I couldn't get the Matrix to sound right to me but the CLR sounds nice without any effort IMHO. Q12 had sort of a pinched or nasal sound that's hard to describe but I couldn't get use to.
 
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