FRFR Upgrade

I started with a pair of Headrush 112s and recently moved to a pair of Xitones. To my ears, the Xitones are a pretty major step up in tone, and all of the muddiness I had with the Headrush is gone. What I hear through the Xitones is nearly identical to what I hear through a PA. Which was one of my goals of upgrading. But I'll say I only took that step after I decided I was for sure sticking with the FM3 as my primary rig going forward. So for me it was worth the cost and upgrade. No different than investing in a better, traditional cabinet. If you're playing at home or doing home recording it might not be worth the upgrade. And I know there are other great options as well, CLR and Friedman being two of them.
 
Did the Headrush and liked it until I needed to play some Metal, so I sold it and got a Laney 2x12 FRFR and there is a big difference on both Metal and all other tones, pic in my sig..
 
Brucegregori said:
I have used most of these FRFR's and they can work really well. A solution I have been going with for a while now - which could be slightly more money, but really is the best of both worlds is to have a modular cabinet built. I had one designed by Raezer's Edge. I can mount a power head inside and also use this as a regular guitar cab without the head.

This solution, I have found is a lot more error free from trying to change presets to fit the FRFR you are using.

I used a 600 watt acoustic image head for my 112, and now thinking of creating a 212 with either the same head or a different one.
I suppose you could create the same setup with any head cabinet design you would want.

Again the advantage to me is you get a much better sound, which is less PA speaker-like.

The total cost of this set up was about 1000 US. But again this head has way more options than a class D insert, and a ton of power.

I also have a eq section if I need it, 2 speaker outs a direct out. I can use this head with any cabinet as a regular power amp or with this set up as a combo solution.

So to answer the question does cost matter? - I would say it can depending on what you want for sound.

Can a PA speaker like a QSC K12 or a FRFR speaker work great - it sure can. But with a set up like this, it easy enough to build a modular insert - like a rack and mount what ever head you want in there. What comes to mind is the power stage 700. If you had this cab built with a 19'' rack insert, you could then mount any head that fit the dimension you want - like a Matrix or a PS 700 for example. If you need more speakers, then just add a 4x12 or something bigger.

To me there are some many really great sound solid state power amps out there that can do the flat thing really well that it makes sense to invest a few more dollars and create a speaker you can actually use.

The last thing I will say is this box I have also found creating presets in the studio and then trying them live with this head/combo has been really transparent. I don't have to try to keep adjusting them to the box and focus more on playing.
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This looks MEAN. Can you send me the link to the builder?
 
666was999 said:
I didn't like my CLR and sold it on after some weeks though all the raving about it everywhere. It is not for everyone. The CLR displays pretty flat over the whole range, true, and you also can use it for tweaking your presets, they translate well to the PA. But the feeling as a monitor on stage didn't please me. It did not punch in my face. Felt like a studio monitor, a giant studio monitor though.
I prefer stuff that punches like a guitar cab even if that means it can't be perfectly flat.
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So what are you using? A guitar cab?
 
had a headrush 112 and thought it sounded fine
got a clr and realized the clr was better
$700 better?
idk
but its kind of like the whole tone chase
Im fine with an agile les paul til I
play a Gibson lp standard
then Im fine with a gibson lp standard til I
play a historic
same thing with amps
Im fine with stock tubes til I get my hamds on mullards and so on
 
Greg Ferguson said:
I switched to the ELIS.8 pair, and really liked their sound and size, but found that on a small, crowded, stage I couldn't tip them back far enough to get them to fire at my ears, which is my only complaint with them.
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Interesting observation.
I am interested in Elis8 myself. These are not near-field monitors, and they are supposed to theoretically sound the entire stage. That's why I think they have such a construction and not any other. MF.10 are only 15 degrees.
Thanks for your comments. Interesting modifications.
 
Mystik said:
Interesting observation.
I am interested in Elis8 myself. These are not near-field monitors, and they are supposed to theoretically sound the entire stage. That's why I think they have such a construction and not any other. MF.10 are only 15 degrees.
Thanks for your comments. Interesting modifications.
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This, I don’t like it, when a monitor, speaker etc. directly pointed to the ears. The Red Sound are more designed to act like a guitar cab.
But personally I never can’t still on stage and I have to move around all the time, so a monitor directly pointing at me is worthless.
But I absolutely can understand that this is necessary for some people.
This is what Sukh has also described in his Video.
The CLR have a different angle and pointing more to the ears than the MF10.
And honestly I wouldn’t like to stand directly in the beam of speaker when they are on higher volume.
Maybe at home that does make sense but I would go for a Nearfield Monitor then.
As I described before that’s all personal preference and it’s good that there are so many different solutions out there.
 
With an FRFR you actually can walk around on stage way better then you could with a guitar cab.

The typical guitar speaker has a narrow beam where every little change of your position counts. And you can set it up the way that your ears are out of the beam and you don't get all the highs. (I'm not a fan of that way, but even some good guys do it that way, so...)

The FRFRs have a wide dispersion and you can move around some. But you almost can't use it the way that you are out of the beam and get no highs. Having it in front of you blasting in your face or having it in your back isn't that big of a difference now for your ears.
I tweak my presets with my monitors in my face and when with the band I place them in my back, that allows for more natural feedback and frees some place in front of me, I don"t it to look like a mess there.
 
Paulg2uk said:
I had a couple of Headrush 108's a couple of years back. I was just getting into the FRFR thing and then I started to go down the rabbit hole a little. And still am to be honest. I was going between the Headrush wedges and using my Boogie 1x12 cab along with a Matrix power amp. I then decided to go full FRFR and sold one of the HR's.

I then got a Matrix FR12 Passive cab I would use with the Matrix and that sounded really good. I ended up selling the other HR I had and kept the Matrix for a while. Shortly after getting the FM3 I was on the hunt for a portable power amp to use with the Matrix cab and had the Powerstage 170 and the 200. I never really got on with those so I ended up selling the 170 and buying the 200 and then eventually returning the 200.

After that I decided to stupidly sell the Matrix cab and power amp and just use cabs with a built in power amp. I bought a couple of Friedman ASC10's which were also very good but a little dark sounding. I ended up selling those a few months later when the Red Sound Elis 8's were announced and bought a stereo bundle of those. And then eventually I bought the MF10 stereo bundle after that as I was blown away by the Elis 8's. They do sound really good!

This week though I ended up selling off a few pieces of gear and I've bought a Mission Gemini 1 powered cab. I was gonna get a passive Gemini 2 to use with the Matrix GT1000 (Which I've bought again lol) but the size and weight put me off so I went with the Gemini 1.I thought when the FM9 finally turns up in Europe I don't want to have a separate power amp for it unless I'm using my Axe and have my rack with me. So a powered cab is the way to go. Do I really need the Matrix now? Probably lol when I end up buying a Gemini 1 passive cab lol.

So far so good, I've only had it a couple of days and plan to play through it some more this weekend. But it's definitely more cab like compared to the Red Sounds. And the size is definitely big enough.

The answer to your question is yes they do make a difference, paying more for a decent FRFR will definitely sound a lot better. Well that's my opinion anyway!

Hope that helps!
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Thank you for such an in depth answer! How is the Gemini treating you?! I think a powered/active cab will also be the way to go for me Bc I don’t want to use a separate power amp.
 
Sashman said:
Depends on what you want. The best FRFR ist the best that you like the most.
I can just recommend to try out as much as you can to find the one that is right for you.
Personally I tried more than 30 different FRFR Speakers including CLR, Xitone, Friedman Mission etc etc and I clearly prefer the Red Sound MF10 and/or Elis 8 over all of them.
But that’s personal preference. The CLR and Xitone are Great Speakers as well and you can’t get wrong with them.



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Is it just me but that demo sounds awful .
 
jamesblonde said:
Thank you for such an in depth answer! How is the Gemini treating you?! I think a powered/active cab will also be the way to go for me Bc I don’t want to use a separate power amp.
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No worries at all, happy share my experience with everyone!

I've not had a another chance to play through it again yet but will do tomorrow. I need to practice my band's set for a gig next weekend so I'll give it another go with all my presets. First impressions though I liked it! definitely more cab like. I'm not sure how that will sound since using the stereo Red sounds I'm using but I'm hoping it won't be too different.

I might even take the Gemini to rehearsals next week and see how it sounds there. The Red Sounds, I usually have them in their angled back position so I'm hoping I can hear the Gemini without tilting it. Shouldn't be an issue as It's pretty loud. I could use an amp stand I suppose but I'd like to stick my FM3 on top of the cab if possible as I have my FC6 or 12 board out front usually. I don't have the Bluetooth version of the cab but I can plug my Mac or iPad in to it and play music through it which I like!

Probably looking to fit some casters to the bottom as well. Its not that heavy but its always easier, for me anyway. I'll have to ask some of the guys on the forum how they fitted their ones, what size I need etc and if I need to avoid hitting anything when I drill the holes for them in the bottom of the cab.

I'll let you know how I get on.
 
I have had these Accugrove Latte"s about 4 years now And have never looked back, not cheap (you get what you pay for) but well worth it! Mine are powered and will get very loud. I would highly recommend them.
 
jamesblonde said:
I am looking to upgrade from my headrush FRFR but before I do, I was curious if anyone else went a similar route as me (ie started out with a cheap FRFR then upgraded). Anybody else start with a headrush then buy a more expensive FRFR and notice THAT MUCH of a difference? I know on paper that all FRFRs should technically sound the same because they’re all flat but I find it hard to believe that a $300 headrush sounds as good as a $1000+ xitone, matrix or atomic CLR monitor. Curious to hear any/all thoughts!
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I started with a Friedman ASM12 and then went to a Headrush oddly enough. The reason though was that the ASM12 was just too heavy for me to want to lug around - it did however sounds fantastic - little dark but still very guitar-cab like. I took a little hit downgrading to the Headrush, but it's not HORRIBLE - it's just not great. I'm thinking my next one will be a Xitone - talked to Mick who was very responsive and seemed like a good guy - someone that I'd want to buy from.
 
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