FRFR: I Admit I Prefer It

[unix-guy]

Good point, and not a bad idea. Luckily we generally play quiet enough that a 1x12, even a traditional one, is honestly enough power to be just fine. I'll have to keep an eye out on reverb or here & see if I can ever snag a deal. I don't think stereo spread is going to really be a thing for me...my whole stack is tucked in a corner.

View attachment 46193

I put mine right next to each other... Still sounds great. But you can put one in front as a monitor and one as a backline. Also sounds great!

 

[Bestial]

Very interesting discussion you have here gentlemans.
My situation is different, yet with similarities. I'm gigging with a band and having another one where we should start gigging soon. Therefore AX8 seems to be very good solution for me, but... Reasons why I'd buy it are size and weight. I want to transport it between rehearsal places and to gigs with ease. At the moment I play through 79 kg (174 lbs) half-stack. It sounds very good, but moving it around is hell. Most of places where we play have their own sound systems and I can go directly into the mix, but not all of them. Second thing is actually hearing myself. Last venue had dead monitor on my side of the stage.
Now, the budget for monitor is tight (~600 EUR). I live in the middle of Europe with no way of renting a FRFR monitor (CLR, XiTones, Matrix, etc.). In-ears don't serve the purpose of substituing cabinet to pump sound in a venue. I was thinking about the new Headrush FRFR-112 or Yamaha DXR 10/12, but reading this and another thread, I'm not sure anymore.
To make it complete, I play metal (6 and 7 string guitar) and both guitarists in my bands have valve half-stacks.
Thank you for any advice

 

[Desmo808]

Most of places where we play have their own sound systems and I can go directly into the mix, but not all of them. Second thing is actually hearing myself. Last venue had dead monitor on my side of the stage.
Now, the budget for monitor is tight (~600 EUR). I live in the middle of Europe with no way of renting a FRFR monitor (CLR, XiTones, Matrix, etc.). In-ears don't serve the purpose of substituing cabinet to pump sound in a venue. I was thinking about the new Headrush FRFR-112 or Yamaha DXR 10/12, but reading this and another thread, I'm not sure anymore.
To make it complete, I play metal (6 and 7 string guitar) and both guitarists in my bands have valve half-stacks.
Thank you for any advice

At the venues that don't have the ability to let you go directly into the mix, is your stage amp the sole source of your sound in the entire venue (i.e., sound guy doesn't mic your cab for FOH)?

If so, then agreed, in-ears alone won't do. I don't have experience with the Headrush, but the DXR10 would be loud enough as backline if you elevate it off the ground. We use a pair of DXR10s as our FOH tops. They are loud and clear. What would be even more marvelous is if you supplement the backline with IEMs. Just personal preference on my part though, I prefer my monitoring in my face or in my skull rather than behind me, lol.

 

[Bestial]

Thank you for your input. Exactly right, those venues don't have their own equipment and band has to bring everything.
Yamaha DXR10 is recommended by many here. The cheapest FRFR other than Headrush I found is Matrix FR12 (not a wedge tho). I'm worried how will it hold in the band (both Yamaha / Matrix). From what I read, it should.
But as this topic name proclaims, would a "true" FRFR make noticeable difference?

I prefer my monitoring in my face or in my skull rather than behind me, lol.

I agree

 

[Rocket Brother]

Thank you for your input. Exactly right, those venues don't have their own equipment and band has to bring everything.
Yamaha DXR10 is recommended by many here. The cheapest FRFR other than Headrush I found is Matrix FR12 (not a wedge tho). I'm worried how will it hold in the band (both Yamaha / Matrix). From what I read, it should.
But as this topic name proclaims, would a "true" FRFR make noticeable difference?


I agree

I use CLR's and absolutely love them and would always recommend them.
If they are out of your budget I'd say get the DXR10, a friend has them so I've heard them and played through them many times and they absolutely great for the price.
The DXR10 are IIRC rated at 1000W so you will be able to be very loud if needed, elevate them if you want to use them for back line .

 

[Sixstring]

Thank you for your input. Exactly right, those venues don't have their own equipment and band has to bring everything.
Yamaha DXR10 is recommended by many here. The cheapest FRFR other than Headrush I found is Matrix FR12 (not a wedge tho). I'm worried how will it hold in the band (both Yamaha / Matrix). From what I read, it should.
But as this topic name proclaims, would a "true" FRFR make noticeable difference?


I agree

The DXR 10 might be a good monitor for standard tunings but drop and it might fall apart I would definitely demo it first!. Personally I would run nothing less than a 12" with a lot of power. Place it on a pole a meter or so high behind you, makes for a great backline solution. Depending on how low you are tuning you could add a sub but now your back to a lot of weight and $$. The CLR is without a doubt holds up to all the hype it gets and holds up in lower tunings! On your side of the pond the Matrix or RCF is what I would be looking at really hard.

Cheers!

 

[Bestial]

Matrix seems to be an option for lower tuning. Will have to wait a bit since it's out of stock at G66.eu and I lack the money. Yamaha DXR12 is 200€ cheeper tho. Decisions, decisions... Thank you all. This community is great.

 

[badmagick]

Very interested in your feedback as I am thinking of order these as well for use with a Matrix Gt100FX.

Thanks,
Derek

The XiTone wedges came in and early impressions are very good! The tone is pretty killer. I do get a good “cab in the room” feel as some people discuss in other threads. My 4x12 cabs are in “live in” front cover road cases and never come out of the case, so I never really got that same rumble you would get from a naked cab anyway. That is likely why the wedge alone feels even better. My only concern so far is stage volume. I will be gigging next weekend with the new setup so I’ll have a better idea after that. Gonna try it as backline. Definitely a great sound tho.

I do understand that the cab IR’s are mic’d Cabs, but with not much tweaking I can have my Mesa through a 4x12 side by side with the new setup and get a negligible difference. So far I am digging the new rig. If that’s what FOH will here (when direct) I can walk into the next gig with confidence since the system and sound guy at the venue are very good. Like I mentioned earlier, I am used to the axe II through a Mesa 2:90 with 4x12’s so this is a major step change for me...

I’ll give another report after next week’s gig.

 

[grandinq]

I’ve come to prefer it just for the consisten sound. I know what my Xitone will pretty much sound like anywhere or standing in any place in a room.

 

[dschaaf]

The XiTone wedges came in and early impressions are very good! The tone is pretty killer. I do get a good “cab in the room” feel as some people discuss in other threads. My 4x12 cabs are in “live in” front cover road cases and never come out of the case, so I never really got that same rumble you would get from a naked cab anyway. That is likely why the wedge alone feels even better. My only concern so far is stage volume. I will be gigging next weekend with the new setup so I’ll have a better idea after that. Gonna try it as backline. Definitely a great sound tho.

I do understand that the cab IR’s are mic’d Cabs, but with not much tweaking I can have my Mesa through a 4x12 side by side with the new setup and get a negligible difference. So far I am digging the new rig. If that’s what FOH will here (when direct) I can walk into the next gig with confidence since the system and sound guy at the venue are very good. Like I mentioned earlier, I am used to the axe II through a Mesa 2:90 with 4x12’s so this is a major step change for me...

I’ll give another report after next week’s gig.

Excellent, thanks so much for the feedback!

D

 

[Rocket Brother]

The DXR 10 might be a good monitor for standard tunings but drop and it might fall apart I would definitely demo it first!. Personally I would run nothing less than a 12" with a lot of power. Place it on a pole a meter or so high behind you, makes for a great backline solution. Depending on how low you are tuning you could add a sub but now your back to a lot of weight and $$. The CLR is without a doubt holds up to all the hype it gets and holds up in lower tunings! On your side of the pond the Matrix or RCF is what I would be looking at really hard.

Cheers!

Matrix seems to be an option for lower tuning. Will have to wait a bit since it's out of stock at G66.eu and I lack the money. Yamaha DXR12 is 200€ cheeper tho. Decisions, decisions... Thank you all. This community is great.

I've tried the DXR10 next to the DXR12 and my CLRs on a few occasions with my Axe II XL+, and the the DXR10's are a bit more flat and true FRFR than the 12's.
Both play loud and go deep, I don't play heavy or use dropped tunings, but I don't see why the DXR's should not do that as well as Matrix.
A 10 inch speaker is often more tight in the lows than a 12 inch.
I had the RCF SMA NX-10 before the CLR's and they were great, not sure I think they are worth the extra money over the DXR10.
I'd personally take the CLR over the DXR 10, and I'd take the DXR10 over the DXR12.

 

[Bestial]

AX8 ordered, time to test Yamaha DXR10 in a store. Thank you once more

 

[Sixstring]

I've tried the DXR10 next to the DXR12 and my CLRs on a few occasions with my Axe II XL+, and the the DXR10's are a bit more flat and true FRFR than the 12's.
Both play loud and go deep, I don't play heavy or use dropped tunings, but I don't see why the DXR's should not do that as well as Matrix.
A 10 inch speaker is often more tight in the lows than a 12 inch.
I had the RCF SMA NX-10 before the CLR's and they were great, not sure I think they are worth the extra money over the DXR10.
I'd personally take the CLR over the DXR 10, and I'd take the DXR10 over the DXR12.

I have a hard time believing that the DXR10 is going to be as flat as the CLR, every demo I have heard of that box sounds like the mids on are hyped. I'm sure it sounds good in the context of a mix and that it can get loud but @Bestial did mention that he is playing metal.

The other thing that I didn't mention is that I'm partial to coaxial type speakers I have both and there is no comparison so I will always recommend a coaxial before a typical 2 way design for stage monitoring with the AX. That said he could also look into DB Technologies Flexsys FM10-12 I think they are around the price of the DXR

Every metal act I have come across or played with the drummer is killing his drum kit and tunings are dropped. This is why I said it "might" fall apart and that it should be demoed first especially at the volumes required to keep up with said type drummer. I realize a lot of guys like the DXR for its size and weight, sound and it is a cool little box but for the type of music he is going to be playing that's why I questioned it.

 

[Bestial]

Every metal act I have come across or played with the drummer is killing his drum kit and tunings are dropped.

Both statements are mostly true. I can't have something that doesn't keep with full-on drumset with second guitar player with 120W valve head and 4x12 cabinet. Hearing myself well is mandatory. Bying something that's easy to carry around, but if it doesn't hold in the band, makes no sense.

CLR is no-go - 1250 EUR is a total deal breaker. DB Technologies Flexsys FM10 has only 300W and can't be put on a stand.
XiTones are too expensive. Matrix FR12 remains (tho out of reach atm). 4x12 cabinet + power amp defies most of AX8 advantages and is expensive too.
Hell... I will probably just go to a shop a try whatever they have. But it will be hard to imagine in a band context. I really hoped for some metalhead to show up here with a possible way to go. Thank you gentlemans.

 

[Tahoebrian5]

Here's what I've been debating...I really "want to want" to jump into the frfr world, but most of where its advantageous doesn't apply to me. I don't play live, I don't move my rig, I don't use a ton of a different tones, and I only play with one other guitarist. So FOH consistency, portability, versatility, and band mix aren't really anything I'm concerned with. Actually with regards to band mix, I almost feel like it would be detrimental since we already have a good thing going in our rehearsal space with our respective stacks.

That said... It would simplify my setup since I'm currently running three signal chains through the axe2 and frfr would eliminate one of them. And the dispersion aspect would be nice.

I just hate to think about spending more than 1000$ to get a decent frfr setup to try and end up hating it. Or spending a few hundred on something affordable but ending up with a false impression of frfr and giving up on it prematurely. I also can't imagine playing through a single 1x12 and feeling satisfied, it just defies logic for me. Right now I'm running a 2x12 plus a pair of 1x12's. Even at low conversational volumes, the sound/feel isn't right if I don't have all 4 cylinders going.

I'm torn on it, but every time I start looking back into it and reading up on it, I again realize that just about every proponent of frfr has a situation vastly different to mine, and all of the benefits I ever hear about them don't really apply to me outside a few niceties that aren't quite worth losing what I already love about my rig.

Based on what you are doing, lower volume, etc, I think you will be much happier with an frfr system. But that being said, if both guitars go frfr that's when things really improve. You can get a used Friedman for around $700 maybe.

 

[unix-guy]

[QUOTE="Bestial, post: 1631221, member: 5ttyl]
4x12 cabinet + power amp defies most of AX8 advantages
[/QUOTE]
I'm a big fan of FRFR, but I disagree with that statement. It (partially) removes 1 specific thing - Cab modeling - from your toolkit.

I say "partially" because you can still send a direct signal using Cab modeling to FOH.

Assuming you already have a 4x12 that you like, you only need a good flat power amp like the Matrix GT800FX or GT1000FX.

 

[yeky83]

Both statements are mostly true. I can't have something that doesn't keep with full-on drumset with second guitar player with 120W valve head and 4x12 cabinet. Hearing myself well is mandatory. Bying something that's easy to carry around, but if it doesn't hold in the band, makes no sense.

FRFR types are typically louder than your usual 1x12, 2x12, and even 4x12 guitar cabs.

CLR is no-go - 1250 EUR is a total deal breaker. DB Technologies Flexsys FM10 has only 300W and can't be put on a stand.
XiTones are too expensive. Matrix FR12 remains (tho out of reach atm). 4x12 cabinet + power amp defies most of AX8 advantages and is expensive too.

Like others have been saying, Yamaha DXR should be a good choice for you in price and performance.

 

[Bestial]

Assuming you already have a 4x12 that you like, you only need a good flat power amp like the Matrix GT800FX or GT1000FX.

I do, but it is 57 kg heavy and I would need 2nd one at the other rehearsal, which makes no sense. My reason switching to AX8 is not just sound but portability as well, both of the unit and a cabinet at the same time. I don't want to drag 60 kg of other stuff around and most of all I'd have to have it twice (2 rehearsals). A bit too complicated.

My idea was AX8 + portable (up to 22 kg) active monitor which can hold with band and be as a main source of my sound at venues with sound system. I want to go right into the mix wherever possible ofc.

 

[Rocket Brother]

I have a hard time believing that the DXR10 is going to be as flat as the CLR, every demo I have heard of that box sounds like the mids on are hyped. I'm sure it sounds good in the context of a mix and that it can get loud but @Bestial did mention that he is playing metal.

The other thing that I didn't mention is that I'm partial to coaxial type speakers I have both and there is no comparison so I will always recommend a coaxial before a typical 2 way design for stage monitoring with the AX. That said he could also look into DB Technologies Flexsys FM10-12 I think they are around the price of the DXR

Every metal act I have come across or played with the drummer is killing his drum kit and tunings are dropped. This is why I said it "might" fall apart and that it should be demoed first especially at the volumes required to keep up with said type drummer. I realize a lot of guys like the DXR for its size and weight, sound and it is a cool little box but for the type of music he is going to be playing that's why I questioned it.

I never in anyway implied that the DXR10 is as flat or as good an FRFR monitor as the CLR, in fact I recommended the CLR above the DXR10 - I did say however that the DXR10 is more flat and true FRFR than the DXR12, which I've experienced myself and also remember "somebody somewhere" measured and posted about on another forum.
The CLR is king of the hill from what I've tried so far, but in a slightly tighter budget I think that the DXR10 is very good indeed.

 

[yek]

At the gig yesterday we had 5 CLRs. Two for FOH, two as monitors, and one as a backline amp.