Fractal Audio Welcomes More Converts

[RichardSchwarzMehr]

Hi all you crazy motherf+++ tone chasers
this is my first post since i m a newbie to the Axe-Fx , But i am curious bout that thing since it s been announced on g66 . hope that i can afford it with at least one FRFR in the next 2 weeks .

I d bet on Eddie Van Halen, he is good Friend of Dweezil and i am sure he already uses one . This would be so cool to have him personally nail his Brown Tone into that litte device :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

Come on Ed .

my friend Chris "Jaimz" Beck from german master metallica tribute band METAKILLA already replaced his marshall JVM Stack and goes direct now , and all i can say : Hetfield never had such a powerful live tone !!!!

but what would all these rock superstars do with all that space on stage :lol:

imagine stages without the huge walls of 4x12 cabs (and their imitations) audience will think that the music must be playback :mrgreen:

 

[Jay Mitchell]

imagine stages without the huge walls of 4x12 cabs (and their imitations) audience will think that the music must be playback :mrgreen:

Hmm, you mean like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJ7lS2nEk-0 ? Yeah, they might get that impression. :lol:

 

[Ochanomizu]

This is even more sadder...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnYvIfG9 ... re=related

 

[Clawfinger]

imagine stages without the huge walls of 4x12 cabs (and their imitations) audience will think that the music must be playback :mrgreen:

Hmm, you mean like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJ7lS2nEk-0 ? Yeah, they might get that impression. :lol:

If he'd been using an Axe-FX then his guitar would've been in tune? I don't get it. Wait, I get it....no I don't...maybe... no. His guitar is out of tune and he can't hear it,or is he playing the song off key and he ca...nevermind.

This is even more sadder...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnYvIfG9 ... re=related

Imagine being one of the other band members (or crew that care for him) and see that tragedy. In Sweden we have this law called LVM that basically is that "if you're a threat to yourself or others, you'll be given psychiatric and medical help even if you don't want it". I think that's a close call. Terrible to watch even the first minute.

 

[Jay Mitchell]

If he'd been using an Axe-FX then his guitar would've been in tune?

No. I'm pretty sure the audience got the impression that "the music must be playback," because that's what it was. The guitar wasn't out of tune, the backing tracks were.

 

[Clawfinger]

If he'd been using an Axe-FX then his guitar would've been in tune?

No. I'm pretty sure the audience got the impression that "the music must be playback," because that's what it was. The guitar wasn't out of tune, the backing tracks were.

How do you know that? How can you tell?

Edit: Yes, I'm a bit drunk. Not too much, but a couple of beers.. just to clarify any weirdness in my posts...

 

[Jay Mitchell]

How do you know that? How can you tell?

There are obviously backing tracks. "How I can tell" is that there are sounds coming form the PA for which there are no instruments.

The story behind this video is well known. The backing track was played back at the wrong sample rate, which shifted its pitch and tempo. The tempo part was easy enough for the band to compensate for, but the pitch was not, as it didn't exactly match another key. They were screwed, and it was obvious.

It is widely reported that one or more members of the sound crew were fired over this.

FWIW, EVH are not by any means the only band to use backing tracks in their concerts. ZZ Top began doing it as early as the late 1970s.

 

[danielodland]

How do you know that? How can you tell?

There are obviously backing tracks. "How I can tell" is that there are sounds coming form the PA for which there are no instruments.

I think he just wanted to know how you could be sure the playback was the problem, not the guitar.

FWIW, EVH are not by any means the only band to use backing tracks in their concerts. ZZ Top began doing it as early as the late 1970s.

I dont get why, though..I'd assume they can afford a guy on synth/keys. Obviously using playback isn't a foolproof method either. I'd be really disappointed if I went to see my favorite band live, and they used playback for one or more instrument. I've always felt that rock and related genres were among the few ones left that had respect for the ethics about these things.

 

[Jay Mitchell]

I dont get why, though..I'd assume they can afford a guy on synth/keys.

It's likely a concern with image. I know for a fact that that's why ZZ Top would not carry additional players on tours. The image that Billy wants to convey is that of three players, and three players only. When there are essential parts that they can't cover as a three-piece, they use recorded tracks.

I've always felt that rock and related genres were among the few ones left that had respect for the ethics about these things.

Ethics? Rock and roll? Not hardly. The decision about whether or not to use backing tracks is made for a variety of reasons, but I'd say from what I've seen that ethics is generally not among them.

 

[danielodland]

I dont get why, though..I'd assume they can afford a guy on synth/keys.

It's likely a concern with image. I know for a fact that that's why ZZ Top would not carry additional players on tours. The image that Billy wants to convey is that of three players, and three players only. When there are essential parts that they can't cover as a three-piece, they use recorded tracks.

I've always felt that rock and related genres were among the few ones left that had respect for the ethics about these things.

Ethics? Rock and roll? Not hardly. The decision about whether or not to use backing tracks is made for a variety of reasons, but I'd say from what I've seen that ethics is generally not among them.

I disagree=))

What I mean is that playback is by many, especially in the rock and metal circuits, considered to be "cheating". That is the "ethic" I'm talking about, which I'd say is being "violated" (for lack of a better word).

IMO, it depends on the artist, but to me it looks stupid when the music appears to be coming from nowhere.

I understand that someone would like to keep the 3-piece image, but I honestly think the use of playback undermines some of the key aspects of playing live/seeing a band live. Again, it depends on the band (and to me, the exception is intro tapes). I mean, at least let someone on stage trigger the sounds somehow =)

It's not that I dont understand why it's tempting to use playback, and I understand that sometimes one of the key parts of a song is on a instrument that nobody in the band is able to play live, but thats one of the hard things about playing live VS studio. Especially with as few members as 3. But that is why many artists rearrange the songs for the live show. I'd take that any day rather than playback.

 

[Jay Mitchell]

What I mean is that playback is by many, especially in the rock and metal circuits, considered to be "cheating".

I am taking no rhetorical position on either side of that issue. I suspect that neither of us has ever had to deal with the issue in planning an upcoming world tour. :lol:

IMO, it depends on the artist, but to me it looks stupid when the music appears to be coming from nowhere.

Why are you trying to argue with me over this? I didn't make any statement about what should or should not be, I made a direct, factual statement about what is. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[javajunkie]

I dont get why, though..I'd assume they can afford a guy on synth/keys.

It's likely a concern with image. I know for a fact that that's why ZZ Top would not carry additional players on tours. The image that Billy wants to convey is that of three players, and three players only. When there are essential parts that they can't cover as a three-piece, they use recorded tracks.

I've always felt that rock and related genres were among the few ones left that had respect for the ethics about these things.

Ethics? Rock and roll? Not hardly. The decision about whether or not to use backing tracks is made for a variety of reasons, but I'd say from what I've seen that ethics is generally not among them.

Yep, I saw them on "Soundstage" last night. Guitars were playing out of nowhere. It was kind of funny.

 

[danielodland]

What I mean is that playback is by many, especially in the rock and metal circuits, considered to be "cheating".

I am taking no rhetorical position on either side of that issue. I suspect that neither of us has ever had to deal with the issue in planning an upcoming world tour. :lol:

IMO, it depends on the artist, but to me it looks stupid when the music appears to be coming from nowhere.

Why are you trying to argue with me over this? I didn't make any statement about what should or should not be, I made a direct, factual statement about what is. Nothing more, nothing less.

Oh, I'm not "trying to argue", I thought we were having a discussion. It looked like you were defending the use of playback, and I responded. Thats it.

Anyway, world tour or not, it is a decision my band has had to take on a few occasions, and decided not to do it.

 

[danielodland]

I dont get why, though..I'd assume they can afford a guy on synth/keys.

It's likely a concern with image. I know for a fact that that's why ZZ Top would not carry additional players on tours. The image that Billy wants to convey is that of three players, and three players only. When there are essential parts that they can't cover as a three-piece, they use recorded tracks.

I've always felt that rock and related genres were among the few ones left that had respect for the ethics about these things.

Ethics? Rock and roll? Not hardly. The decision about whether or not to use backing tracks is made for a variety of reasons, but I'd say from what I've seen that ethics is generally not among them.

Yep, I saw them on "Soundstage" last night. Guitars were playing out of nowhere. It was kind of funny.

I love it when someone lets their guitar go to clap their hands as part of the show, and the guitar keeps playing.

 

[Jay Mitchell]

It looked like you were defending the use of playback,

I said nothing whatever in defense of the practice. I pointed out - correctly - that it goes on.

There are clearly different takes on this. At least one member here does single gigs with backing tracks, with his guitar and vocals being the only live parts. I know lots of professional musicians who adopted this practice as a survival tactic, and several of them continue to make comfortable livings performing music. Had they taken a more, umm, "ethical" approach, odds are they'd have had to get day gigs to pay the bills. Even though I made different choices, I'm not going to judge them for their decision. Everyone who generates revenue from music makes artistic (and "ethical") compromises in order to do so.

 

[danielodland]

It looked like you were defending the use of playback,

I said nothing whatever in defense of the practice. I pointed out - correctly - that it goes on.

There are clearly different takes on this. At least one member here does single gigs with backing tracks, with his guitar and vocals being the only live parts. I know lots of professional musicians who adopted this practice as a survival tactic, and several of them continue to make comfortable livings performing music. Had they taken a more, umm, "ethical" approach, odds are they'd have had to get day gigs to pay the bills. Even though I made different choices, I'm not going to judge them for their decision. Everyone who generates revenue from music makes artistic (and "ethical") compromises in order to do so.

A "one man band", and similar setups is not the same thing as ZZtop or Van Halen choosing to use pre recorded parts for the instruments they dont feel like taking on stage.

As I said, there are exceptions/it depends on the artist in question.

Anyway, this conversation doesnt need to go on. I've stated my opinion, and you choose not to. Thats cool. I'm perfectly happy with leaving it here.

 

[rock15478]

I know I'm chiming in late here but I'd like to at least explain some "facts" about backing tracks in today's national rock music scene. I'm not going to get into what I believe is right/wrong but I'd like to at least state the facts that I've seen/heard with my own eyes. I've played many shows with national bands mostly in the rock/alternative genre. I'd say that 90% of the bands we play with use backing tracks (including my band). To the extent of what is tracked depends on the band. But I've seen it go as far as the lead vocals being tracked because the lead singer blew out his vocal chords on tour.

From an audience perspective, there are many many bands who can pull backing tracks off flawlessly that you would have NO clue they're using backing tracks. You would just think they're "really good" live. I've seen guitars that are tracked with those tracked guitars coming out of 4x12 cabs on stage and a mic on the cab. Believe it or not, almost all bands track their backing vocals. Again, I'm not getting into what is right/wrong here, and I'm not trying to ruin the live experience for anyone, but you do need to at least realize what is out there. Just because you go and see a band live and don't "hear" anything that appears to be tracked, it could very well be they're just pulling it off really well. My band for example has been using live tracks for the past 3 years and not once has any fan ever asked us why we use backing tracks. More so, we get questions about how we pulled off certain parts live. It's what everyone does today. I can't name any bands but if I could, I bet a lot of you would be shocked with the names.

 

[danielodland]

Thanks for chiming in. I'm aware that many bands use backing tracks that are pre-recorded. I'm also aware that there are more bands that do than many realize. What I'm saying is (and I'm sure this sounds horribly stupid to many) that I would prefer an inferior sound to what I'd call cheating. It's not important to me that "all bands do it", which I by the way dont agree with. The fact that many do it doesnt make it right. IMO of course. Again, there are different types of backing tracks. If you have one song that requires a synth track during a whole set list, use a backing track (if the part is REALLY necessary to do the song). If you feel the need to use extra guitar tracks to "fatten up" the general sound, get an extra guitar player or use production techniques to achieve it. The lead vocals scenario is a tough one, but I would at least feel very very bad about using pre recorded lead vocals.

[EDIT: because of previous experience with forums, misunderstandings and language barriers, I want to add that all this is IN MY OPINION, and nothing else.]

 

[teestone]

Long time lurker....first time poster....

I think it's known that Dweezil Zappa has a couple Axe-FX's that he's using with Zappa Plays Zappa.

I saw them perform on Jam Cruise 8 a few weeks ago and was very impressed with his tones. Enough so that I made my way to the stage to see what it was he was using. Sure enough, in his rack two units marked A and B.

It made me a convert right then and there...but I'm nobody!!

 

[cobbler]

I have seen many bands use backing tracks over the years. How can it not be obvious when you are seeing The Who play Baba O'Riley and yet nobody is on keyboards?