Food for Thought

atquinn said:
You pay shipping for everything that Fractal sells. Therefore, the reasonable expectation would be that you would pay shipping for the FC. If you have any other expectation and are then disappointed when that expectation is not met, then you are ridiculous. And Veritechc has never struck me as being quite that ridiculous. So I'm wondering what exactly the phrase "additional shipping" means. Has he already somehow paid shipping for the FC and is now worried that he might have to pay more?

Austin
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Did you read the part in his post about how he feels the industry standard in MI is free shipping (a feeling that seems to bear the weight of reality)? Is Fractal it’s own industry or is it part of the MI industry? If it’s the latter they are bucking the industry standard...the reasons why they choose to do so are their own and I’m not going to bother getting into it, but it’s not completely out of left field for consumers of MI gear to expect to not pay for shipping on orders over a few hundred dollars that aren’t classified as “oversized”.
 
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Surrealistic Brillo said:
Did you read the part in his post about how he feels the industry standard in MI is free shipping (a feeling that seems to bear the weight of reality)? Is Fractal it’s own industry or is it part of the MI industry? If it’s the latter they are bucking the industry standard...the reasons why they choose to do so are their own and I’m not going to bother getting into it, but it’s not completely out of left field for consumers of MI gear to expect to not pay for shipping on orders over a few hundred dollars.
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You're paying for shipping either way. Just because you don't see the shipping price doesn't mean you're not paying for it lol
 
Surrealistic Brillo said:
Did you read the part in his post about how he feels the industry standard in MI is free shipping (a feeling that seems to bear the weight of reality)? Is Fractal it’s own industry or is it part of the MI industry? If it’s the latter they are bucking the industry standard...the reasons why they choose to do so are their own and I’m not going to bother getting into it, but it’s not completely out of left field for consumers of MI gear to expect to not pay for shipping on orders over a few hundred dollars.
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Fractal has never offered free shipping. Veritechc has purchased Fractal gear in the past and knows this. Therefore, it is completely out of left field for him to expect to not pay for shipping for the upcoming footpedal. I wasn't addressing my question to some hypothetical "MI consumer", I was addressing it to him.

Austin
 
Well certainly generated a lot of discussion. And the reality is if you're spending 2500, you know what you are getting with Fractal. As an early adopter, there are some things we'd all like to have sooner but I know Cliff, Matt and co are on it. (Remember when Axe Edit went through a full rewrite? Look at it now)

Their stuff is the best.

MM
 
veritechc said:
As far as on this forum I knew when I came back here it was a minefield. Hey it’s Fractals forum and they can run it any way they want. The people here are, passionate for sure. It’s not the way I run my groups but it obviously works for them. This time back I haven’t personally been the target of any animosity (well until everyone reads this, lol) but I have seen some of the mods and admins be a bit harsh to a few new users.
https://m.facebook.com/groups/549598248743645
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Let's be clear here AGAIN about the minefield. You bought a II awhile back and came to the forum with some questions and some mild complaints. You were treated here with nothing but respect and everyone in the two threads you created went out of their way to help you.

It was then that you decided to go over to TGP and start ridiculing the forum as being hostile and full of nothing but Fractal fan boys. This went on quite often, as you were very vocal, until I just couldn't take it anymore and linked the 2 threads in a TGP post asking you where you were treated unkindly here. Remember all this?

So it was then that you backtracked and admitted you were wrong and it was actually the TGP forum where you were made to feel uncomfortable. Are you now backtracking again? Because your above comment insinuates yet again that you were treated here with "animosity" on this forum which I already proved wasn't true and you acknowledged.

Just want to set the record straight and with that said welcome to the III and looking forward to the journey before us. :)
 
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Surrealistic Brillo said:
Frankly, as tired as some of you may be of hearing it, I’m tired of being told by fanboys how “grateful” I should be.
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Are there a lot of "fanboys" on here? Yes. Do the "fanboys" give FAS a lot more leeway than you or most might expect? Sure.

The reason? Earned trust

Few "fanboys" are fans for the sake of it. People become fans because they see a consistent stream of agreeable and desirable behavior. This is evident here: FAS produce quality products, provide an impressive stream of firmware updates, have good customer service, and are very open in their engagement on here.

This is all about experience. The people who are most defensive of FAS are invariably those who have been around here for a while and had the trust they put in FAS validated. Thus, they are not "fanboys" in a blind-support-of-anything sense, they are genuinely happy and supportive customers. Their respect has been earned.

Now, does this mean FAS are perfect? Or course not, but I don't think they profess to be.

In your posts you have been, at times, whiney. Constructive criticism should be cherished, but moaning should not. Look at the full balance of the FAS experience and I think you will find that things are generally very good.
 
I own a small micro welding company shipping is never free..the cost of shipping is always going up - would never consider free shipping for customers...
 
Surrealistic Brillo said:
I believe it either means his expectation based on an MI industry standard of free shipping at that price point won’t be met or he doesn’t like the idea of having to pay for shipping for an Axe3 only to have to pay shipping again for a proprietary foot controller that wasn’t launched with it, or both.
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That was exactly what I meant. I was hoping that perhaps there would be a discount on the footswitch for those of us who already paid for the Axe Fx III. That was all.

atquinn said:
You pay shipping for everything that Fractal sells. Therefore, the reasonable expectation would be that you would pay shipping for the FC. If you have any other expectation and are then disappointed when that expectation is not met, then you are ridiculous. And Veritechc has never struck me as being quite that ridiculous. So I'm wondering what exactly the phrase "additional shipping" means. Has he already somehow paid shipping for the FC and is now worried that he might have to pay more?

Austin
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Sorry I wasn't clear. I answered above. Guess I'm a bit ridiculous, lol

FractalAudio said:
Only a fool thinks free shipping is actually free.
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Ouch! Tough crowd, lol. Ridiculous and a fool. Hi all! I'm back!

cobbler said:
Let's be clear here AGAIN about the minefield. You bought a II awhile back and came to the forum with some questions and some mild complaints. You were treated here with nothing but respect and everyone in the two threads you created went out of their way to help you.

It was then that you decided to go over to TGP and start ridiculing the forum as being hostile and full of nothing but Fractal fan boys. This went on quite often, as you were very vocal, until I just couldn't take it anymore and linked the 2 threads in a TGP post asking you where you were treated unkindly here. Remember all this?

So it was then that you backtracked and admitted you were wrong and it was actually the TGP forum where you were made to feel uncomfortable. Are you now backtracking again? Because your above comment insinuates yet again that you were treated here with "animosity" on this forum which I already proved wasn't true and you acknowledged.

Just want to set the record straight and with that said welcome to the III and looking forward to the journey before us. :)
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This forum IS full of Fractal fanboys. Just as it should be. Hell, I'm one of them now I guess. But for me, that doesn't mean that I will stop mentioning things that I think would help.

I remember what transpired well. It was actually the catalyst for me to start The Helix Group on Facebook which has done very well. So although I didn't like how a new person was treated back then it was a helpful experience. It's actually a large part of why I now feel like part of this amazing music industry. That experience is also one of the guiding forces that govern how our groups treat new users and customer service in everything I am involved with. So really I owe a thank you to those who came down on me back then. Whether it was here or on TGP.

The Axe Fx III is a masterwork. Even at this early stage. So is the Helix. So is the GT-1000 and the Kemper. I love that the competition only benefits the customers and pushes music out to more people. Because in the end isn't that what we are all here for? The music.

Our industry is small. Every time someone buys one of these modelers and loves it that is good for us all. I want Fractal to succeed because if they do, we ALL do. That is my motivation when I write anything here, the hope to make this all better for everyone! That is why I would like to see better distribution from Fractal and yes "free" shipping and financing. That gets the product into the hands of more guitarists. That's also why I'd love to see "stupid" questions answered with patience (like when one Mr. Veritechc suggests free shipping for all. What an a-hole that joker is).

Here's to hoping that my intentions come through in this message. I think the Axe Fx III is a great product with a good launch supported by a fantastic company helmed by a mad scientist of sound design.

I'm here all day folks, lol. Have a great day.
 
cobbler said:
It was not here so implying it was yet AGAIN is not true. That's all I am saying. Have a great day. :)
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Actually, I wasn't implying anything except the people here can be VERY passionate and that I had recently seen some comments to newcomers that I thought were a bit harsh. Not a thing more. Like I said above I am way over my initial visits here over three years ago. Heck the industry isn't even the same from that time. But thanks for keeping it real. Everyone needs that from time to time.
 
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veritechc said:
Ouch! Tough crowd, lol. Ridiculous and a fool. Hi all! I'm back!
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Me thinks you missed the point. Shipping isn't free. It's just that a lot of the industry has just factored that into pricing or is taking a hit to their margins. The MI is brutal with regards to pricing. Fractal could do the same thing - they could add $100 to the price of the III but they've chosen to charge for the device as a constant and let the variable cost of shipping fall on the purchaser.
 
veritechc said:
What I am surprised at is they launched without scificent units to cover the initial rush ready to go. This waitlist system is painful and with a couple of months more time would have been better for all involved.

I know they are a small company but I’d love to see this improved with the next product launch (I’m looking at you Footswitch.)
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Fractal is building and scaling at a rate that they feel comfortable with. The drama that many create around the waitlist is really befuddling. No money is required. You don't have to commit anything at all. It's not like waiting all night on Thanksgiving in front of Best Buy to save 50 bucks on a flat screen.

You must not have been buying many bleeding edge musical products 20, 30, 40 years ago. Because when new things would come out, they'd burn through the initial shipment quickly and start taking orders for stuff once they got a sense of how well the thing was going to do in the market. It wasn't uncommon for it to take a year after a NAMM debut to get some cool new rack gear or synth. Oh, and those orders all required down payments. So you'd have money tied up for a long time. I remember when Roland released the D-50 and Yamaha released the DX-7 - they had no idea what game changers they created and the demand was off the hook.

Quite frankly, I was totally surprised that when I got on the Axe-FX Ultra waitlist that I didn't have to put money down.

And how could Fractal know how many to build? I'm sure they anticipated some good sales but it's not a cheap device and there's a lot of cool stuff on the market already (including their own products). How long should they have held off selling them to satisfy folks that they made enough?

veritechc said:
It’s also painful only being able to buy direct with no financing and paying additional shipping. That is strange in this industry to me but obviously not a deal breaker.
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Very few companies offer financing. Financing is coming from retailers - it's not like Line 6 had anything to do with your financing options to buy your Helix.

veritechc said:
As far as on this forum I knew when I came back here it was a minefield. Hey it’s Fractals forum and they can run it any way they want. The people here are, passionate for sure. It’s not the way I run my groups but it obviously works for them. This time back I haven’t personally been the target of any animosity (well until everyone reads this, lol) but I have seen some of the mods and admins be a bit harsh to a few new users. Stuff like “read the manual” which was completely warranted where I saw it used, is not really what I do for new coustomers. I think sometimes those of us who have used this gear for years forget just how much of a learning curve that this wonderious box can be. And we get frustrated. But I don’t think that showing that frustration is the best way to help. But I totally get it. I have been troubleshooting and supporting computers and music gear for 30+ years. There are times when it seem the best fix would be a slap, lol.
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There have been times where people have been treated abruptly. But a lot of times, they lodge their complaint or difficulty with threads that are extremely inflammatory and overtly hostile. Stuff like UnhappyNewUser Post #1 - "I just bought an Axe-FX and it sounds like crap and I can't believe any morons could think this thing sounds better than an AM radio covered in dirty blankets". So they get roughed up a little and then whine about it. BTW, I'm not saying you did this at all - but this has happened quite a bit.

You should have been around the Line 6 forums a few years ago. It was an a-hole festival - nothing like it is today. And almost no Line 6 presence at all - as you know, the current crop of guys are way, way, way more helpful.

Cliff and co. participate as normal down to earth people on the forums and in direct communications as well. They have silently endured a lot of what I consider unfounded criticism and personal attacks. The reality it that they are genuinely good people with mad skills and killer products working their ass off to get the best toys they can in the hands of as many musicians as they can. Class acts all the way. I'm good with that.
 
I have been 10 years waiting for an update, including bugs correction, on the $2,000 Roland VG-99.

It never came, and the product is now discontinued... :(

Fractal Audio are an outstanding exception on product development and customer care.
 
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