FM9 Setup out of the Box

[Greg Ferguson]

Princeton and JTM45. They are the two amps I use in my main preset with my Helix. I started with the same-ish settings, which may not be a great idea but I had to start somewhere. The results at that point were pretty harsh sounding on the FM9, with a pretty real nasty fizziness.

Did you set the block’s dials to the same that you use on the Helix?

There are a number of good factory presets using those amps. Search the Factory Presets page in the Wiki for those amp names, load the presets, turn up the volume quite a bit and see how they sound.

 

[Rex]

Rolling back the gain wasn't cleaning them up much for me and in fact was already pretty low since I was aiming for clean tones first.

If rolling back the Gain doesn't reduce the gain, then you're overdrive something further down the signal chain.

 

[bleujazz3]

Princeton and JTM45. They are the two amps I use in my main preset with my Helix. I started with the same-ish settings, which may not be a great idea but I had to start somewhere. The results at that point were pretty harsh sounding on the FM9, with a pretty real nasty fizziness.

Performing a hi cut at about 8500 Hz should bring remove some of the fizziness; will also improve the tone. Reducing the gain will also decrease noise.

 

[Rumbletone]

Princeton and JTM45. They are the two amps I use in my main preset with my Helix. I started with the same-ish settings, which may not be a great idea but I had to start somewhere. The results at that point were pretty harsh sounding on the FM9, with a pretty real nasty fizziness.

I love both those amps, but neither would be my first choice for cleans. That said, they absolutely should be capable of clean tones - lower the preamp gain to a very low setting, EQ to taste, and if you’re using a guitar with high output pickups lower your guitar’s volume.

And as others have suggested, if that’s not working please post a preset so we can check it to help identify any issues with it. There are many ways an amp block can get ‘dirty’ that may not be obvious. For example, ensure that the ‘master’ is not set too high, the preamp boost isn’t unintentionally on, etc.

 

[JN99]

Did you set the block’s dials to the same that you use on the Helix?

There are a number of good factory presets using those amps. Search the Factory Presets page in the Wiki for those amp names, load the presets, turn up the volume quite a bit and see how they sound.

I did, as a starting point only, just to see where that put me. I've also played through the Princeton factory preset a little but need to compare to the prest I've started building.

If rolling back the Gain doesn't reduce the gain, then you're overdrive something further down the signal chain.

It reduced the gain, just not enough. I do need to experiment more.

Performing a hi cut at about 8500 Hz should bring remove some of the fizziness; will also improve the tone. Reducing the gain will also decrease noise.

Also did this. Coming from the Helix, where this makes a huge difference I was hoping it would help. It did, a little but not as much as I'm used to on the HX.

I love both those amps, but neither would be my first choice for cleans. That said, they absolutely should be capable of clean tones - lower the preamp gain to a very low setting, EQ to taste, and if you’re using a guitar with high output pickups lower your guitar’s volume.

And as others have suggested, if that’s not working please post a preset so we can check it to help identify any issues with it. There are many ways an amp block can get ‘dirty’ that may not be obvious. For example, ensure that the ‘master’ is not set too high, the preamp boost isn’t unintentionally on, etc.

Granted, these aren't amps that come to mind for pristine cleans but both clean up nicely and I'm after more an edge of breakup kind of sound. My main guitar is equipped with a pretty hot humbucker but I haven't compared to one of my guitars with lower output. I assume the input trim is similar to rolling off volume on the guitar?

Thanks for all the replies, much appreciated. I haven't had much time to really dig in and experiment so I'm sure there are other approaches that will yield the desired results and maybe better ones but the Input Trim did the trick, so I mentioned that for the OP.

 

[unix-guy]

Thanks for all the replies, much appreciated. I haven't had much time to really dig in and experiment so I'm sure there are other approaches that will yield the desired results and maybe better ones but the Input Trim did the trick, so I mentioned that for the OP.

If you're creating your own presets using Fender (at least) amp models then setting Input Trim to .500 is equivalent to plugging into the "normal" input.

So if you're going for "authentic" then start there

 

[Greg Ferguson]

It reduced the gain, just not enough. I do need to experiment more.

This is a common problem when people are getting used to modelers/modeling and not playing them at a loud volume. At quieter volumes we tend to turn up the gain too much, compensating for that missing something, but then we turn down the volume control, and then the amp won't clean up, leading to "The "Modelers Don't Clean Up with the Volume Knob" Myth". The page is technical, but the gist is:

When playing with a loud amp the positive feedback from the speaker into the guitar effectively increases the gain of the amp when the volume control is wide open. As you roll the volume control off the amount of gain increase is lower. This gives the ILLUSION that the amp cleans up more when you roll of the volume but it's not the amp that is cleaning up, the signal into the amp is lowered more than if there were no feedback.

When using a modeler people almost always have the volume lower because amps are too loud. Lowering the volume reduces the feedback which in turn lowers the gain enhancement. To compensate people raise the gain of the model but now when you roll off the volume it doesn't clean up as much because the gain is higher. IOW, to compensate for the reduced feedback the user increases the gain, say, 25% to get the same effective gain as the loud amp but when rolling off the volume the amp gain is still 25% higher so it doesn't clean up as much.

I've run into that a couple of times with presets I built, and now try to turn down the gain below where I'd really like to have it as I treat my amps, whether they're tube or in the modeler or multiple-channel, like they're single-channel amps, and control the clean to distorted sound from the guitar.

Another thing that helps is to add the Amp block's Input Trim to the Global Performance tab, so you can easily tweak the overall gain of the amps. It's a good way to make single-coil pickups hotter, or back down the sound of a hot pickup too, but there are many ways to do that.

---

PS - The linked Tech note also says:

This is what happens for controlled feedback. The closed loop gain approaches infinity and the loop becomes unstable and oscillates. That's why controlled feedback is easier to obtain at higher volumes, the feedback coefficient is greater. Another way is to move closer to the speaker. Since sound pressure is inversely proportional to the square of the distance moving 50% closer results in four times the feedback!

A lot of people say that it's impossible to get a guitar to feedback, like Carlos Santana, when using a modeler. Volume, gain, and acoustic coupling are the trick, just like when using a regular amp and cabinet. The above explains why.

 

[bleujazz3]

This is a common problem when people are getting used to modelers/modeling and not playing them at a loud volume. At quieter volumes we tend to turn up the gain too much, compensating for that missing something, but then we turn down the volume control, and then the amp won't clean up, leading to "The "Modelers Don't Clean Up with the Volume Knob" Myth".

I've run into that a couple of times with presets I built, and now try to turn down the gain below where I'd really like to have it as I treat my amps, whether they're tube or in the modeler or multiple-channel, like they're single-channel amps, and control the clean to distorted sound from the guitar.

Another thing that helps is to add the Amp block's Input Trim to the Global Performance tab, so you can easily tweak the overall gain of the amps. It's a good way to make single-coil pickups hotter, or back down the sound of a hot pickup too, but there are many ways to do that...

...A lot of people say that it's impossible to get a guitar to feedback, like Carlos Santana, when using a modeler. Volume, gain, and acoustic coupling are the trick, just like when using a regular amp and cabinet. The above explains why.

Just thought to add with the 4.01 beta 2 of the benefits of the optical and studio sustainers located in the compressor blocks. I use an optical sustainer with a modifier control switch/per-preset with attack/release about 200/600 ms respectively. Creates this nice feedback harmonic when pressed. It also decays naturally so the note rings out, then the harmonic, and holds nicely for a couple seconds until fading.

 

[Greg Ferguson]

Just thought to add with the 4.01 beta 2 of the benefits of the optical and studio sustainers located in the compressor blocks. I use an optical sustainer with a modifier control switch/per-preset with attack/release about 200/600 ms respectively. Creates this nice feedback harmonic when pressed. It also decays naturally so the note rings out, then the harmonic, and holds nicely for a couple seconds until fading.

Even so, it doesn’t behave or sound like the real deal. Once you’ve worked with real acoustic coupling on a rig and guitar that are really responsive, anything else doesn’t measure up. I tried the various solutions people suggested and they don’t behave realistically.

 

[bleujazz3]

Even so, it doesn’t behave or sound like the real deal. Once you’ve worked with real acoustic coupling on a rig and guitar that are really responsive, anything else doesn’t measure up. I tried the various solutions people suggested and they don’t behave realistically.

I think the best way to try to get sustain/feedback to sound natural is with the attack/release. Large ms attack/release (200/800) works really nicely. Try it yourself and see if you like it or not...

Not sure what acoustic coupling means, but with FAS drive and lead scenes, it works well, IMO...

 

[Greg Ferguson]

I think the best way to try to get sustain/feedback to sound natural is with the attack/release. Large ms attack/release (200/800) works really nicely. Try it yourself and see if you like it or not...

I’ve tried it several times with different versions, and it really doesn’t sound or behave naturally.

Not sure what acoustic coupling means, but with FAS drive and lead scenes, it works well, IMO...

If you are not sure what it means and haven’t experienced playing with the real thing then how sure are you that it works well?

Acoustic coupling is physics in action, the natural phenomenon when the string’s vibration is picked up by the pickups and passed to the amplifier, amplified, sent to the speaker, which vibrates and shakes the air, which then shakes the strings again from sympathetic vibrations, which is then picked up by the pickups, ad infinitum. We have to be careful to not let it run away which turns into a squeal, but volume or our proximity to the speaker helps us control it. We can turn and cause the feedback to change notes without needing any pedals or blocks, and we can hold a note until we decide to let it go because it will not decay.

Listen to Carlos Santana, especially his Lotus album, as he’s a great practitioner of it.

 

[bleujazz3]

I’ve tried it several times with different versions, and it really doesn’t sound or behave naturally.


If you are not sure what it means and haven’t experienced playing with the real thing then how sure are you that it works well?

Acoustic coupling is physics in action, the natural phenomenon when the string’s vibration is picked up by the pickups and passed to the amplifier, amplified, sent to the speaker, which vibrates and shakes the air, which then shakes the strings again from sympathetic vibrations, which is then picked up by the pickups, ad infinitum. We have to be careful to not let it run away which turns into a squeal, but volume or our proximity to the speaker helps us control it. We can turn and cause the feedback to change notes without needing any pedals or blocks, and we can hold a note until we decide to let it go because it will not decay.

Listen to Carlos Santana, especially his Lotus album, as he’s a great practitioner of it.

The sustain Carlos attains, I understand. I just didn't recognize the phrase "acoustic coupling" as something that identified sustain or feedback. You've got more experience in these things; it's appreciated you took the time to describe what it means.

Perhaps the optical sustainer isn't perfect. Nothing really is. The way I've got it set up with some of my presets, it works exceptionally well. Maybe the optical sustainer doesn't sound or behave naturally to you, but as for me, I'm not complaining with what I've accomplished with the optical sustainer control switch modifier...

 

[Rex]

The sustain Carlos attains, I understand. I just didn't recognize the phrase "acoustic coupling" as something that identified sustain or feedback. You've got more experience in these things; it's appreciated you took the time to describe what it means.

Perhaps the optical sustainer isn't perfect. Nothing really is. The way I've got it set up with some of my presets, it works exceptionally well. Maybe the optical sustainer doesn't sound or behave naturally to you, but as for me, I'm not complaining with what I've accomplished with the optical sustainer control switch modifier...

Acoustic coupling is when one object or system transfers sound energy to another object or system. In this case, your speaker transfers sound energy to the guitar itself. That causes the pickups to send signal to the amp, which sends signal to the speaker, which sends signal to your guitar via that same acoustic coupling, and the sustaining feedback loop is complete.