FM3 Firmware Version 6.01

I mean they need to work to make the existing amp models more accurate instead of adding new amp models. I have some real amps and I have made my A/B tests. I am sure FAS know exactly what I mean.

There are many reasons why your A/B tests might not sound like your amps. And I don’t think FAS knows what you mean. Nobody knows because you’re just complaining and not explaining your issue.
 
This is it in a nutshell. I probably sound like a broken record or a super fanboy (which I’m not) but of all the gear that has inspired me since ~1981 (and I have or had some nice stuff) the FM3 has really made a significant difference. 20 years ago I would never believed so much could be put into such a small package.

As I was reading through the other thread speculating about new FAS products and/or how to make the FM3 better or more what some would consider “more perfect” for them I was saying to myself that I’m grateful the FM3 was just like it was based on its price point. I had dismissed all modelers until almost 2 years ago based on negative experiences. For different reasons (much due to physical limitations) I started to seriously consider them again and the Quad Cortex was just being announced and I was thinking that it would be the device to get. However, its price was really beyond what I could justify to myself and just as important, my wife.

So when I came upon the FM3 that was selling at the time for $999 US it being below 4 digits was easier to rationalize. I’m so glad that it was that price because I may have gone looking for something else that would have been another disappointment. Even when I drug my feet too long and the price jumped to $1099 the day I had finally made the decision to pull the trigger it was still in that range for this aging guitar player who had and has sworn to stop blowing money on gear. Most of all it afforded me to get onboard FAS that up until that point I thought was way out of my prices range.
And FM 3 is sooo flexible to use....you can put several functions on just one footswitch. Perfect!
 
I mean they need to work to make the existing amp models more accurate instead of adding new amp models. I have some real amps and I have made my A/B tests. I am sure FAS know exactly what I mean.
I hope you did not set the knobs to the same position and expect the same results. Did you have the exact same tubes or better the exact same amp? And I mean EXACT! And what other piece of magical gear is better IYHO?

Edit:
Oh and I’m pretty sure over the past 2 years all Cliff and team did was sit around playing Call of Duty and counted the dollars rolling in.🙄 I guess I just dreamed things like Cygnus and Cygnus X2 or Chase Nonlinear Feedback Technique.

Here’s all that really needs to be said.
 
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And FM 3 is sooo flexible to use....you can put several functions on just one footswitch. Perfect!
Interesting you mention this. While I got my head around a good bit of the FM3 I’m still learning and have much to learn. As I was playing with seeing how fast presets and scenes switch I also got playing around with layouts and foot switch customizations. Learned some new things. I need to revisit and get more serious about squeezing every bit out of it.
 
Thanks Fractal you rule!! All except for the below works great for me. Love the tight knob on the new drive for tight dirty funk.

@rglr Still problem with the Compressor values for attack and release. Tested it out a bit more now and it seems like it's the Dynamicomp that screws it up. When selecting that compressor I get the default values of 3.600ms/1399.9 then it stays or gets the wrong values when selecting others. If you're not selecting that (Dynamicomp) you can go around the others and they will have their correct default values. Reseting the channel clears it.

Also the problem when turning on/off effects (on the unit via footswitch) that takes fm3-edit to reflect at least 5-10 seconds is still there. Tried that a bit more and it's not related to control switches, but with them it takes even longer.
 
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I mean they need to work to make the existing amp models more accurate instead of adding new amp models. I have some real amps and I have made my A/B tests. I am sure FAS know exactly what I mean.

No other previous posts, just stopping by, laying the body at our feet, and moving on?

It's hard to tell if you're actually wanting this looked at, or if you're just here to cause trouble. If you're wanting to be constructive, helpful, and contribute to a solution, then upload some presets that you think aren't modelled accurately, and maybe some additional information about your entire signal chain. I'm guessing if you had a problem with your car or your house or whatever, and you were paying by the hour to have it diagnosed and fixed, you'd be as specific as possible. There are like 300 different amp models and magnitudes of variations when you factor in other blocks, and all of the parameters that go with any of them. If you posted because you genuinely think something's off, then at least legitimize your claim by providing presets and other specifics. I'm guessing the issue is localized to your setup anyway.

You don't have to tell FAS to work on modelling accuracy. In my opinion, their obsession with accuracy is one of their key differentiators. If you think though that there's a problem, then provide details. It requires almost no more effort than posting vague gripes. If you need help uploading presets, just ask.
 
I hope you did not set the knobs to the same position and expect the same results. Did you have the exact same tubes or better the exact same amp? And I mean EXACT! And what other piece of magical gear is better IYHO?

Edit:
Oh and I’m pretty sure over the past 2 years all Cliff and team did was sit around playing Call of Duty and counted the dollars rolling in.🙄 I guess I just dreamed things like Cygnus and Cygnus X2 or Chase Nonlinear Feedback Technique.

Here’s all that really needs to be said.

If Cygnus x1 that you dreamed was perfect, then why they released Cygnus x2 that is also perfect and why they will release Cygnus x3 etc?
 
No other previous posts, just stopping by, laying the body at our feet, and moving on?

It's hard to tell if you're actually wanting this looked at, or if you're just here to cause trouble. If you're wanting to be constructive, helpful, and contribute to a solution, then upload some presets that you think aren't modelled accurately, and maybe some additional information about your entire signal chain. I'm guessing if you had a problem with your car or your house or whatever, and you were paying by the hour to have it diagnosed and fixed, you'd be as specific as possible. There are like 300 different amp models and magnitudes of variations when you factor in other blocks, and all of the parameters that go with any of them. If you posted because you genuinely think something's off, then at least legitimize your claim by providing presets and other specifics. I'm guessing the issue is localized to your setup anyway.

You don't have to tell FAS to work on modelling accuracy. In my opinion, their obsession with accuracy is one of their key differentiators. If you think though that there's a problem, then provide details. It requires almost no more effort than posting vague gripes. If you need help uploading presets, just ask.
I just wrote the post and hope FAS will see it to state that I would prefer them to improve the modelling instead of adding new amp models. They are clever guys and they know their job and I am sure they have made their comparison tests so are aware where they need to improve the amp models.
 
I mean they need to work to make the existing amp models more accurate instead of adding new amp models. I have some real amps and I have made my A/B tests. I am sure FAS know exactly what I mean.
The response of a tube amp is dependent upon the speaker impedance. If you use a speaker with same impedance curve as the model then the response of the model will be very close to the real amp (component tolerances are still a factor). If your speaker's impedance curve is different then there will be audible differences.

In the Amp block you can select different impedance curves. Switch through them and notice the difference in response, particularly in the bass.

Our modeling is extremely accurate but matching a particular copy of an amp is limited to variables beyond our control like speaker impedance curve, component tolerances and design changes. If matching a particular amp exactly is your goal you have two choices:
1. Learn what causes the difference. Read through the Tech Notes section. Educate yourself.
2. Use a profiling product.

main-qimg-829f09f5383354ddd4a97119910d084f-pjlq
 
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The response of a tube amp is dependent upon the speaker impedance. If you use a speaker with same impedance curve as the model then the response of the model will be very close to the real amp (component tolerances are still a factor). If your speaker's impedance curve is different then there will be audible differences.

In the Amp block you can select different impedance curves. Switch through them and notice the difference in response, particularly in the bass.

main-qimg-829f09f5383354ddd4a97119910d084f-pjlq
So please 4x12 G12T-75 impedance curve. 🤙
 
The response of a tube amp is dependent upon the speaker impedance. If you use a speaker with same impedance curve as the model then the response of the model will be very close to the real amp (component tolerances are still a factor). If your speaker's impedance curve is different then there will be audible differences.

In the Amp block you can select different impedance curves. Switch through them and notice the difference in response, particularly in the bass.

main-qimg-829f09f5383354ddd4a97119910d084f-pjlq
Thanks, I have already done all those adjustments.
 
Thanks Fractal you rule!! All except for the below works great for me. Love the tight knob on the new drive for tight dirty funk.

@rglr Still problem with the Compressor values for attack and release. Tested it out a bit more now and it seems like it's the Dynamicomp that screws it up. When selecting that compressor I get the default values of 3.600ms/1399.9 then it stays or gets the wrong values when selecting others. If you're not selecting that (Dynamicomp) you can go around the others and they will have their correct default values. Reseting the channel clears it.

Also the problem when turning on/off effects that takes fm3-edit to reflect at least 5-10 seconds is still there. Tried that a bit more and it's not related to control switches, but with them it takes even longer.
Thank you. Will take a look.
 
The response of a tube amp is dependent upon the speaker impedance. If you use a speaker with same impedance curve as the model then the response of the model will be very close to the real amp (component tolerances are still a factor). If your speaker's impedance curve is different then there will be audible differences.

In the Amp block you can select different impedance curves. Switch through them and notice the difference in response, particularly in the bass.

main-qimg-829f09f5383354ddd4a97119910d084f-pjlq
I have made many tests, the most representative was when I used the real amp into the Universal audio OX and send the fractal also to the OX through the secret line input it has. In all the tests we made various amps ans preamps, we always noticed about the same results: There are some low frequencies in the amps that they cannot reproduced ( we tryed many eq tweaking) with the FAS and they have a big impact in the feeling that the guitar player has in his hands.
 
If Cygnus x1 that you dreamed was perfect, then why they released Cygnus x2 that is also perfect and why they will release Cygnus x3 etc?
Nothing is perfect and there are always incremental improvements to be made. No company can just sit on their duff and hope to remain successful.

You're statement that:
I am sure FAS know exactly what I mean.
is extremely vague and somewhat cavalier. You need to offer proof of your claim. Give some examples of what you are experiencing and plenty of people here will walk you through it.

Otherwise get a profiler.
 
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I have made many tests, the most representative was when I used the real amp into the Universal audio OX and send the fractal also to the OX through the secret line input it has. In all the tests we made various amps ans preamps, we always noticed about the same results: There are some low frequencies in the amps that they cannot reproduced ( we tryed many eq tweaking) with the FAS and they have a big impact in the feeling that the guitar player has in his hands.
Who is we ?
And you know those sub low freq are going to get axed out in a mix right?
 
Instead of adding new models, please improve the low frequencies to all models so they be more accurate!
Like others said, some specifics here would be helpful. For me, it took a full year of dedication to the virtual realm to feel comfortable with it and manage it. All my recipes in the analog world had to go out the window and just start again building sounds, using my ears, and making the adjustments that work for me. I build all of my own presets.

That said, there are so many variables here, the IR you choose, the mic you choose, what you're monitoring through. Then on top of that, all of the different layers of parameters (especially in the amp block) to get more of what I need out of the amp.

Thing is, even a real amp mic'd up live or in the studio... if you only listen through monitors (not guitar cab) or IEM, it's going to sound different than your amp sound in a room.... always.

Getting good studio/live tones even with an analog rig takes time... even with a rig that you know infinitely.

For me, in the FM3, the impedance curve, speaker thump, and mic proximity are powerful arbiters of what the low end characteristics of the amp will be. If those don't get me the last 10% of what I'm looking for, I'll change the cab/amp/or mic.

Perhaps as an experiment for yourself (and a demo for us) make a recording of your actual amp mic'd up... and then make a recording of your fractal sound... then we could be better able to help you.

Sean Meredith-Jones
 
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