FM3 Firmware Release Version 1.06

Then obviously that is why they have to take certain functions and scale them down, such as drives, reverbs delays, etc, etc, etc... to make them not take so much resources... right?
And, while completely understanding all this frustrations, it is not a "one chip does everything's" solution. From personal experience, USB Audio is a pretty f*** up thing, and that's why today's equipment aims to use LAN or Thunderbolt with different protocols. And the APIs to those cost a lot of money, just as a side note.
The issues with the stuff suddenly going white or the unit is stuxk when changing presets can be anything from a condition in software, which is not doing what you want, over communication errors with peripherals, up to hardware problems. Again, not processing power, but a whole lot of other stuff.
I hope for all guys that they will find out what is going on there, so they can fix it. But again, problems due processing power are a different pair of shoes, sorry to say this.
 
so all you’d pay for is processing power? That’s what determines price?


any specific bugs/problems are not due to processing power ability. bugs can happen on any level of processing power. It’s easy and natural to blame an issue on only the things you can understand, but processing power isn’t the reason.


the more I learn about anything, the more I realize I have so much more to learn. again it’s easy to place blame on “processing power” if that’s the most you know about how devices are created. but there has been public discussion of the specific issues and reasons for some of the trouble. and it’s not “processing power.”

I personally am glad you shared what you did because we can respond to those thoughts and show where it may be misguided.




Ok well, maybe not. You are so focused on “processing power” and that’s really not the issue. At this point I have no idea what you’re talking about.
If you don't know what I am talking about then you are not listening... its not about the pandemic, but it was brought up. I was speaking of processing power because it was brought up several times in many posts that we cannot do this or that and therefore we have to scale down reverbs, delays, this or that, and I realize you been here a long time and are a man who loves and protects fractal, but I am a buyer and I have buyer opinions based on what I have read and experienced, so that being said, I am disappointed that I heard from the man himself that half the price and only 1/5 the processing power, so tell me its not a problem with processing power? Lets hear it... its not fact... or prove me wrong.
 
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If you don't know what I am talking about then you are not listening... its not about the fake pandemic, but it was brought up. I was speaking of processing power because it was brought up several times in many posts that we cannot do this or that and therefore we have to scale down reverbs, delays, this or that, and I realize you been here a long time and are a man who loves and protects fractal, but I am a buyer and I have buyer opinions based on what I have read and experienced, so that being said, I am disappointed that I heard from the man himself that half the price and only 1/5 the processing power, so tell me its not a problem with processing power? Lets hear it... its not fact... or prove me wrong.
I mean you could have waited to purchase the product. Early adopters can sometimes reap what they sow when purchasing new products.
That being said, you can't expect to have HALF the power of the AxeFX3 for half the cost; Fractal would be cannibalizing the sales of the flagship model.

FM3 is a gateway into the Fractal ecosystem. If you need more resources for reverbs and delays, add additional effects pedal. This thing was NOT designed to be a floorboard equivalent version of the AxeFX 3 at half the price.
 
I mean you could have waited to purchase the product. Early adopters can sometimes reap what they sow when purchasing new products.
That being said, you can't expect to have HALF the power of the AxeFX3 for half the cost; Fractal would be cannibalizing the sales of the flagship model.

FM3 is a gateway into the Fractal ecosystem. If you need more resources for reverbs and delays, add additional effects pedal. This thing was NOT designed to be a floorboard equivalent version of the AxeFX 3 at half the price.
Look, I will say it again, I like the FM3 a lot.... I am only disappointed by a couple things, one is processing power, and no, I did not have to wait as an early adapter. And as Cliff said, 1/2 the price 1/5 the processing power, so no, not 1/2 the processing power.
 
If you don't know what I am talking about then you are not listening... its not about the fake pandemic, but it was brought up. I was speaking of processing power because it was brought up several times in many posts that we cannot do this or that and therefore we have to scale down reverbs, delays, this or that, and I realize you been here a long time and are a man who loves and protects fractal, but I am a buyer and I have buyer opinions based on what I have read and experienced, so that being said, I am disappointed that I heard from the man himself that half the price and only 1/5 the processing power, so tell me its not a problem with processing power? Lets hear it... its not fact... or prove me wrong.
If you’re speaking about fewer block instances, and smaller Layout grid, then yes, that’s specifically due to different lower powered processors used for a smaller floor device, created at a lower price point. This was all known before purchasing the FM3. Other than that, the FM3 offers the SAME quality of amp modeling and most blocks have the same exact capabilities and sound as the Axe3. There are updates waiting to be ported to the FM3 but aside from that, there isn’t a huge gap in capability. If you’re just focusing on how many blocks you can add, you’re missing a lot.

can you describe what you mean by “scaling down reverb and delay”?

“half the price for 1/5 processing power” is not an accurate description of the FM3. For example, does the Axe3 have 3 built in footswitches? No. Should that design and feature set not be paid for?

USB and footswitch LCD issues however are not caused by lower processing power. That’s what people here are trying to communicate to you.

If you are mad that the FM3 has less processing power compared to the Axe3, that I can’t sympathize because it was common knowledge that it did not have the same processing power as an Axe3. 1/2 the price of a more expensive device doesn’t equal 1/2 the processing power in any industry. There are other factors to pricing products than just processing power. Does a $1000 PC always have exactly 1/2 the “processing power” of a $2000 PC? Pretty sure it doesn’t. The $2000 PC could have the exact same processing power but offer other features.

Frustration over specific issues as mentioned is understandable. But those issues - again - are not due to lower processing power.
 
[...] but I am a buyer and I have buyer opinions based on what I have read and experienced, so that being said, I am disappointed that I heard from the man himself that half the price and only 1/5 the processing power, so tell me its not a problem with processing power? Lets hear it... its not fact... or prove me wrong.
See, the graphic card in your PC may have different processing power than the USB Controller. And there's the graphics may not work, your USB can. And vice versa.
Your argumentation lacks insight in how digital electronic products work, I am actually want to hear more facts about why you think it is this way, instead of letting people defend themselves. How about you proving it by disassembling the unit and make reverse engineering or whatsoever, instead of telling people that only your opinion is right, but proving it?
 
Sorry Chris but I read it from a quote from the horses mouth " “half the price for 1/5 processing power” and you are saying it is not true, but if need be I will go find the quote.
 
Sorry Chris but I read it from a quote from the horses mouth " “half the price for 1/5 processing power” and you are saying it is not true, but if need be I will go find the quote.
Please quote me where I said “that’s not true.”
 
Please quote me where I said “that’s not true.”
You said... “half the price for 1/5 processing power” is not an accurate description of the FM3. For example, does the Axe3 have 3 built in footswitches? No. Should that design and feature set not be paid for? But I read it from Cliff's post a while back.
 
You said... “half the price for 1/5 processing power” is not an accurate description of the FM3. For example, does the Axe3 have 3 built in footswitches? No. Should that design and feature set not be paid for?
yup. i stand by that statement. i did not say "no one said 1/2 the price for 1/5 processing power." cliff said that. i saw it.

to describe the FM3 like that only is not an accurate description of the FM3. clearly "processing power" is important to you. but that's not all a device is.

people are trying to use metaphor and similarities to describe to you a bigger picture. but these aren't resonating with you, so i'm not sure much more can be said here.

the FM3 does not have the same processors or processing power as an Axe3. this is public and common knowledge about the product. knowing this, i would not buy an FM3 if the result you want is having the processing power of an Axe-Fx III.

the FM3 is a very portable unit that has the same Amp Modeling and other block capabilities as the Axe-Fx III. the Axe3 is not as portable, and doesn't have built-in footswitches. you'd have to buy those additionally. the FM3 happens to have about 1/5 the processing power of an Axe-Fx III, but has footswitches built in and majority of the features of an Axe-Fx III. it has a smaller Layout grid, and can load fewer blocks at a time in a preset compared to an Axe-Fx III, but you have the full tone in a very small unit with control built-in at a lower price.

if you want the processing power of an Axe-Fx III, you'll need to buy an Axe-Fx III. the FM3 does not have the processing power of an Axe-Fx III, therefore buying an FM3 will not give you the processing power of an Axe-Fx III.
 
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yup. i stand by that statement. i did not say "no one said 1/2 the price for 1/5 processing power." cliff said that. i saw it.

to describe the FM3 like that only is not an accurate description of the FM3. clearly "processing power" is important to you. but that's not all a device is.
It is amazing to me that you guys take one statement and run with it. As I said, my disappointment is with the fact that processing power is a part of the problem. And I believe it is. I like the FM3, but I think it could have been better from the get go by not SCIMPING on the processing power and I stand on that statement, and many would agree.... sorry, but that is how I feel the problems, not all of them, but a part of them are happening, otherwise we would not have to take from one thing and give it to another. If I was the designer, at this point (and I am not), I would have increased the processor power and increased the price by the same factor. That's all I was saying.
 
It is amazing to me that you guys take one statement and run with it. As I said, my disappointment is with the fact that processing power is a part of the problem. And I believe it is. I like the FM3, but I think it could have been better from the get go by not SCIMPING on the processing power and I stand on that statement, and many would agree.... sorry, but that is how I feel the problems, not all of them, but a part of them are happening, otherwise we would not have to take from one thing and give it to another. If I was the designer, at this point (and I am not), I would have increased the processor power and increased the price by the same factor. That's all I was saying.
i mean, you're honestly the one taking one statement and running with it. you keep saying many problems are due to processing power. you've said that in every post now. and that's fine to say. but it's just not accurate. if you keep saying the same thing over and over, we can only respond to the same thing over and over.

from those who know a bit about how a digital device works, the recent bugs reported are not due to processing power. i'm not sure how else to say it.

it's been mentioned before that you can't just stick whatever powerful processor you want into any device. higher powered processors require more room in the chassis for airflow and cooling, for example. more powerful processors run hotter. to put the same processors as the Axe3 into the FM3 body would lead to overheating. that's just one example of why the processors used in the FM3 were chosen. there are other reasons too, but without knowing a little about how these things actually work, it's very easy to say "just put a better processor in it." often times, you just can't.

i think i get where you're coming from. and this discussion has been fine, i think.

did you know the FM3 didn't have the same processing power as an Axe3 in general before purchasing? if so, maybe it was the "shock" of seeing the term "1/5" that is frustrating you. what did you think it was before seeing that number? if you thought it was 1/2 because the price is 1/2, that unfortunately is a fallacy and was never, ever stated.

processing power truly isn't everything about a device. i've gigged the FM3 on many, many gigs. it sounds great. i use just the FM3 and an expression pedal. "processing power" never was a factor in how well i played the gig or how i sounded.

the AX8 has less processing power than an Axe-Fx III at around 1/2 the price too. does that factor into this discussion at all?
 
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i mean, you're honestly the one taking one statement and running with it. you keep saying many problems are due to processing power. you've said that in every post now. and that's fine to say. but it's just not accurate. if you keep saying the same thing over and over, we can only respond to the same thing over and over.

from those who know a bit about how a digital device works, the recent bugs reported are not due to processing power. i'm not sure how else to say it.

it's been mentioned before that you can't just stick whatever powerful processor you want into any device. higher powered processors require more room in the chassis for airflow and cooling, for example. more powerful processors run hotter. to put the same processors as the Axe3 into the FM3 body could lead to overheating. that's just one example of why the processors used in the FM3 were chosen. there are other reasons too, but without knowing a little about how these things actually work, it's very easy to say "just put a better processor in it." often times, you just can't.

I concur... I am not an expert in the field, it really just comes back to "robbing peter to pay paul" and "1/5 the processing power". Truly, I only wish my first experience with fractal had not been tainted with all the "sh*t I read on this forum and TGP. I love FM3, only want it to stand up to the standards I hoped for with Fractal, and you can blame Leon Todd for most of that.... LOL
 
I concur... I am not an expert in the field, it really just comes back to "robbing peter to pay paul" and "1/5 the processing power". Truly, I only wish my first experience with fractal had not been tainted with all the "sh*t I read on this forum and TGP. I love FM3, only want it to stand up to the standards I hoped for with Fractal, and you can blame Leon Todd for most of that.... LOL
can you be specific about "what's not living up" to the standards you hoped for? if you can, please let's just stop saying 1/5 the power. that's just an arbitrary number and a catch-all phrase that doesn't explain anything.

if it's the USB issues, then that's something no one expected to happen, and again, that has nothing to do with processing power.

is it something other than the USB issues? i honestly don't understand the "robbing" metaphor you keep using.

what specifically do you not like or what specific issues are you facing?

the FM3 is on Firmware 1.xx. the first one. the Axe-Fx III is on Firmware 14.xx. that's 13 more major revisions of Firmware. once the FM3 gets out of 1.xx, i'm sure we'll see amazing updates. the reason the FM3 is still on 1.xx has nothing to do with processing power.
 
can you be specific about "what's not living up" to the standards you hoped for? if you can, please let's just stop saying 1/5 the power. that's just an arbitrary number and a catch-all phrase that doesn't explain anything.

if it's the USB issues, then that's something no one expected to happen, and again, that has nothing to do with processing power.

is it something other than the USB issues? i honestly don't understand the "robbing" metaphor you keep using.

what specifically do you not like or what specific issues are you facing?
So Chris, do you actually work for Fractal or is it just your job to defend them or do you just like the word game? I told you emphatically my complaint and if you don't get the 1/5 processor power (which was a quote from Cliff) or the fact that I am disappointed by all the problems FM3 owners have had to this point, then I don't know what to tell you. I do not have USB problems per say other than FM3 edit freezing and Scribble strips disappearing. I have made my statements about having to "rob peter to pay paul" describing my disappointment that one has to take from one function, i.e. Reverb or delay in order to make it work properly. These are legitimate. Sorry if you don't like it but these are real world issues. And really, I am not here to debate you on whatever it is your function is here, maybe to make those that complain look bad? Cuz that is what it appears to be. I said I like the FM3 and I am a veteran rocker, I have owned many tube amps and other various amp modelers. FM3 and Fractal are the best in my opinion. So.... again... don't know what to tell you, but if I need to speak up about something I feel, then I will do so... whether you approve or not !!!
 
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So Chris, do you actually work for Fractal or is it just your job to defend them or do you just like the word game? I told you emphatically my complaint and if you don't get the 1/5 processor power (which was a quote from Cliff) or the fact that I am disappointed by all the problems FM3 owners have had to this point, then I don't know what to tell you. I do not have USB problems per say other than FM3 edit freezing and Scribble strips disappearing. I have made my statements about having to "pay peter to pay paul" describing my disappointment that one has to take from one function, i.e. Reverb or delay in order to make it work properly. These are legitimate. Sorry if you don't like it but these are real world issues. And really, I am not here to debate you on whatever it is your function is here, maybe to make those that complain look bad? Cuz that is what it appears to be. I said I like the FM3 and I am a veteran rocker, I have owned many tube amps and other various amp modelers. FM3 and Fractal are the best in my opinion. So.... again... don't know what to tell you, but if I need to speak up about something I feel, then I will do so... whether you approve or not !!!
All I’ve done is ask what issues you’re facing. You’ve mentioned some of it in this post and now I can understand specifically what is going on.

You can speak up for sure. I’ve not once called you a name, said what you’re feeling is wrong or anything. I’m not arguing. If anything, I’ve said the reasons for the issue are not “processing power.”

I’ve never said the issues you’re having aren’t real because until this post, you didn’t mention any specific issues, so how could I say that?

I’ve never said anything about you being disappointed is wrong or false or bad. Until this post, I didn’t know what you were disappointed about other than 1/5 processing power, which is the only thing you mentioned in every post until now.

I never thought anything you said was complaining, nor did I say you were complaining, nor did I try to make you look bad in any way. You were the first to use that word in the post I quoted, so that’s the only reason I’m mentioning it now.

I don’t work for fractal. I don’t get paid by them. I don’t post on any other forums. I’m not a forum moderator and don’t have to approve of anything. I enjoy the gear and teach it on my own time for free to help people learn the products. I am a beta tester and help find the cause of issues, so my interest in posts like yours is specifically to solve problems, not argue.

Speaking up is easy. Listening to the responses may not be.

If you want to talk about specific bugs or issues, which could help me find the source of those issues, I'm here for that. Anything else, I'm not interested in.
 
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All I’ve done is ask what issues you’re facing. You’ve mentioned some of it in this post and now I can understand specifically what is going on.

You can speak up for sure. I’ve not once called you a name, said what you’re feeling is wrong or anything. I’m not arguing. If anything, I’ve said the reasons for the issue are not “processing power.”

I’ve never said the issues you’re having aren’t real because until this post, you didn’t mention any specific issues, so how could I say that?

I’ve never said anything about you being disappointed is wrong or false or bad. Until this post, I didn’t know what you were disappointed about other than 1/5 processing power, which is the only thing you mentioned in every post until now.

I never thought anything you said was complaining, nor did I say you were complaining, nor did I try to make you look bad in any way. You were the first to use that word in the post I quoted, so that’s the only reason I’m mentioning it now.

I don’t work for fractal. I don’t get paid by them. I don’t post on any other forums. I’m not a forum moderator and don’t have to approve of anything. I enjoy the gear and teach it on my own time for free to help people learn the products. I am a beta tester and help find the cause of issues, so my interest in posts like yours is specifically to solve problems, not argue.

Speaking up is easy. Listening to the responses may not be.

If you want to talk about specific bugs or issues, which could help me find the source of those issues, I'm here for that. Anything else, I'm not interested in.
I can appreciate your position. The only reason I brought up my thoughts tonight is because it has been eating at me a little bit. I have been thinking about it for a couple 2 or 3 weeks and fed by posts from others here and on the TGP forums. As I said, I like the FM3 and Fractal, I have just been disappointed by what I have read, along with my limited experience, probably 2 months now. I wasn't really here on this post to describe my problems, such as freezing, scribbles disappearing, usb recording problems, or so many others that have been reported. I think I know that Fractal will fix these problems. But again, my first Fractal experience. I only stated what I did to voice my disappointment that "apparently" the processor is inadequate to fulfill the needs required to bring the FM3 up to the Axe3. And yes, I know, and no one needs to bring it up again, that the FM3 is not the Axe3, however, it is alleged (or was) that it would be able to port over many of the same things available on the Axe3. I personally have never thought it would match the Axe3 per say, but when they started to "rob peter to pay paul" on delays (reverbs) and spoke about the drives and the pitch shifting, well, I became concerned. And just being honest. I have been playing professionally since the 70's beginning with acoustic (Martins), then by the 80's with Rock and Electric, including Marshall and HiWatt tube amps. But now, with this technology, and carrying this small FM3 and going FOH without carrying anything else, well, you can imagine my desire and my hope that it was/is all that I hoped it would be. So consider this a message to Fractal that I hope it all comes to pass and hoping it does. :)
 
I can appreciate your position. The only reason I brought up my thoughts tonight is because it has been eating at me a little bit. I have been thinking about it for a couple 2 or 3 weeks and fed by posts from others here and on the TGP forums. As I said, I like the FM3 and Fractal, I have just been disappointed by what I have read, along with my limited experience, probably 2 months now. I wasn't really here on this post to describe my problems, such as freezing, scribbles disappearing, usb recording problems, or so many others that have been reported. I think I know that Fractal will fix these problems. But again, my first Fractal experience. I only stated what I did to voice my disappointment that "apparently" the processor is inadequate to fulfill the needs required to bring the FM3 up to the Axe3. And yes, I know, and no one needs to bring it up again, that the FM3 is not the Axe3, however, it is alleged (or was) that it would be able to port over many of the same things available on the Axe3. I personally have never thought it would match the Axe3 per say, but when they started to "rob peter to pay paul" on delays (reverbs) and spoke about the drives and the pitch shifting, well, I became concerned. And just being honest. I have been playing professionally since the 70's beginning with acoustic (Martins), then by the 80's with Rock and Electric, including Marshall and HiWatt tube amps. But now, with this technology, and carrying this small FM3 and going FOH without carrying anything else, well, you can imagine my desire and my hope that it was/is all that I hoped it would be. So consider this a message to Fractal that I hope it all comes to pass and hoping it does. :)
i totally get where you're coming from. many are frustrated. right now, i'm spending time trying to find the source of some of the bugs you mentioned. i haven't been able to reproduce any since they've been reported. i'm sure Fractal is frustrated these things are happening too.

i have no doubt these issues will be solved soon, and that many of the Axe3 updates will be coming to the FM3.
 
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