FM3 connection to Mixer - Gain problem

[mst]

Hello guys

so I guess an easy question here, but as always easiness is relative........

got my FM3 which i really like, at home I Go through my ID 14 Mk2 soundcard and my monitors ( also direct to monitors at time).

BUT

when i Go to The reharseal Room, i need to go directly to the mixer, here is my difficulty.
I always have the impression the gain i've set in the presets ( I go mono all the time), changes. The mixer makes it gainier. And ok that the response of my montors is not the same as the mixer + PA i have there, but I'd like to know if there is a strategy to connect perfectly the system to a mixer, so that the gain I program in is unaffected when i change to the local PA system.

What is your strategy? could it be like this

1) i switch to my cleaniest sound
2) i attach to the mixer and regulate gain ( on the mixer) and volume ( on the FM3) until there is no difference in tone and signal gain
3) go from there


I actually do this but it doesnt work 100%- i always have the impression the mixer is gainier and the bass responde is more powerful than home.

Thanks!

P

 

[Rex]

The gain at rehearsal is exactly the same gain as at home, unless your mixer is clipping. If so, then that’s a mixer problem, not an FM3 problem.

On the other hand, “just the right amount of gain” at moderate volume can quickly become “too much gain” at gig volume. So dial in your tones loud, and they’ll translate better at rehearsal

 

[Ugly Bunny]

I literally just plug in to my mixer and it sounds identical. We use headphones at rehearsal, so the presets I make through headphones sound the same. I think the variable here is the frequency response of your speakers; at home it's different than at rehearsal, which can be subjectively experienced as gainier or whatever.

Best thing to do is build your preset at rehearsal or have two sets of presets - one for each setup - if the sound is so dramatically different.

 

[Greg Ferguson]

I always have the impression the gain i've set in the presets ( I go mono all the time), changes. The mixer makes it gainier. And ok that the response of my montors is not the same as the mixer + PA i have there, but I'd like to know if there is a strategy to connect perfectly the system to a mixer, so that the gain I program in is unaffected when i change to the local PA system.

I doubt the mixer makes it "gainier" unless you're overdriving its input, instead it's physics.

A large part of the sound of an electric guitar is the physical interaction of the amplifier+speaker and the guitar+strings+pickups. The sound coming from the speaker, when it reaches a certain volume, begins to shake the strings on the guitar which are picked up by the pickups and sent back to the amp as increased volume. That raises the gain in the amp, which sends a fatter, more distorted, sound to the speaker, again and again. The exact same thing happens when using an FRFR, or a power amplifier and guitar cabinet, or going to FOH and monitors on the stage return the sound to the guitar's strings.

That acoustic coupling is important to our sound, but can't happen when we…

• don't have enough volume.
• wear IEMs or headphones.

Often, when we set the EQ of our presets at home the volume isn't loud enough. As a result, we turn up the gain in the preset, AND we adjust the bass and treble to counter the Fletcher-Munson effect, which sets us on the road to disaster when we finally get into a live band setting because once that acoustic coupling happens our settings go haywire. And, because the volume is louder, the compensation for Fletcher-Munson's effect will result in lows and highs that are overly emphasized. What's the fix? Turn it up when EQing and setting the gain of the amp.

With headphones or IEMs, increasing the volume to what it sounds like on stage will help counter the Fletcher-Munson effect, but it won't do anything to replicate the acoustic coupling. The modeler makes parameters available to us that help replicate the sound changes in the amp and speaker but it can only do so much, the guitar still won't react the same way because the air isn't moving the way it should to get "that sound." As soon as there is any amplification of the guitar's sound, such as FOH, if that sound hits the guitar strings it'll have some effect, either reinforcing the vibration or countering it if it's not in phase. Headphones/IEMs or not, you can't bypass the physics though they might not have as much of an effect as if you have cabinets on stage.

We keep a very quiet house here, so I use headphones 99% of the time when building my presets. I have four different pairs and use compensating IRs or curves to flatten them to push their sound closer to the sound of my FRFR cabs. By EQing with the compensation on, and the volume up, I get sound through my speakers that is very close to what I hear in the headphones. I've learned to trust the process, and as long as I use the curves for the initial adjustment of the preset, then remove them before I save then everything works out nicely when I start my sound check. I've learned to use less reverb and delay in my mix, and turn down the gain, and I'm happy.

See AutoEQ for compensation curves, Fletcher-Munson in the Wiki, and The "Modelers Don't Clean Up with the Volume Knob" Myth in the Tech Notes for more information.

 

[mst]

Thank you guys

so the problem was that i made the sounds without pushing my home monitor enough.
Therefore due to the low volume i ended up putting more gain without realizing.

was just that unfortunately!

your support as always in invaluable!