First gig with the Axe, and it sounded terrible

[Gasp100]

I agree with using the cab block (with any IR) to block HI and LOW to a certain degree. It helps with a lot of the vintage-y amp/cab configurations, but for some of the modern tones I like the extended depth and crisp highs up, especially on gain.
IMHO an AC30 tone (especially with gain and/or boosted with a TS808 - REALLY, MORE MIDS for a Vox???) is a tough nut to crack.
I would grab a clean using a Fender or possibly the JTM45 (that is what I'm using to dial in my LP's, sounds scarily close to my old Germino Club 40 clean!) and maybe some "easy" Marshall flavors for hard rhythm/lead (I'm dialing the Atomica HI and Brit Silver - with SATURATION ON for the Brit for leads). I saw your posts on TGP, so the q12 is new and FRFR is a new "paradigm" for you? Could you explain where everything was situated? How the cab was orientated? Does everyone go through the PA? etc...
I use the Atomic CLR which should not be that much different than the q12 I guess? I had time to crank it up quite loud to prep for a gig and when it's up high and dead on axis it can be quite brutal - it takes some time and effort to tweak the rig at those volumes, but as you move even slightly off axis (or put it in wedge form on the ground which is how I'll use it at the gig) it really sounds killer.
What did your sound guy / PA say about the rig FOH?

 

[LVC]

If you are going to play in a band -- my recommendation is to create your preset from scratch and dial every aspect of that patch cranked. I have found no other way to do it and get the results I want

 

[bgrizzmayne]

I agree with using the cab block (with any IR) to block HI and LOW to a certain degree. It helps with a lot of the vintage-y amp/cab configurations, but for some of the modern tones I like the extended depth and crisp highs up, especially on gain.
IMHO an AC30 tone (especially with gain and/or boosted with a TS808 - REALLY, MORE MIDS for a Vox???) is a tough nut to crack.
I would grab a clean using a Fender or possibly the JTM45 (that is what I'm using to dial in my LP's, sounds scarily close to my old Germino Club 40 clean!) and maybe some "easy" Marshall flavors for hard rhythm/lead (I'm dialing the Atomica HI and Brit Silver - with SATURATION ON for the Brit for leads). I saw your posts on TGP, so the q12 is new and FRFR is a new "paradigm" for you? Could you explain where everything was situated? How the cab was orientated? Does everyone go through the PA? etc...
I use the Atomic CLR which should not be that much different than the q12 I guess? I had time to crank it up quite loud to prep for a gig and when it's up high and dead on axis it can be quite brutal - it takes some time and effort to tweak the rig at those volumes, but as you move even slightly off axis (or put it in wedge form on the ground which is how I'll use it at the gig) it really sounds killer.
What did your sound guy / PA say about the rig FOH?

This was my setup:


The q12 is in the right, it's kind of dark. Yeah this is my first FRFR/modeling rig, the wedge in the middle was house sound's. Using a suhr s4 strat style guitar

 

[MikeyB59]

The OP noted that it's easier to get the Axe to sound crappy than it is a real amp. That in my experience is true. So many variables to play with. OTOH, I love my current sounds and don't have anything like his experience with thin and uninspiring tone. The stuff about being near clipping scared me. Clipping is one guaranteed way to make the Axe sound crappy. I also agree about presets. There are some great presets around and I enjoy seeing how people get particular sounds, but I wouldn't gig with anyone else's preset. That's not saying that I'd need to change them much to get there. It's usually just basics like getting the gain structure and tone right for my guitar and how I play and then tweaking verb/delay and whatever else to suit.

One thing I did when I was first gigging my Ultra was use a Behringer midi fader box with external controllers assigned to the basic amp gain controls plus a few fx parameters. That really helped me correct on the fly for things that were not translating from my basement to the gig. Now I take my Ipad to gigs with the Lemur template so I can tweak patches quickly if needed. I had the Ipad all ready at a gig yesterday, but it never was needed. Was playing rhythm guitar (and occasional lead) in a zydeco band. Used the Komet with the gain really low instead of my more typical Twin. Sounded great. The brother in law of one of the guys in the band was there and he's a rock and roll producer in NYC. He's totally a tube amp guy and he'd never heard of the Axe. He thought I had a great sound and particularly dug the lead sounds (can't even remember for sure, Zen Drive or TS and a little delay). I was loving the sounds, too, Warm, singing, touch responsive.

If the AC30 isn't doing it, Komet, Wrecker, AC20 might all be possibilities.

 

[hoth]

i did exactly what Yek said, and now i love my axe-fx II.....before i tried what Yek said, i was about to sell the axe-fx II.....it was that bad to my ears, brittle.

I use a lot of the settings that Yek gave for even just playing at home. It could be my bad ears or being so used to live or processed tones, but the blocking of the extreme highs plus the tweaking at lower frequencies gives me tremendous sounds at bedroom and much louder levels.

 

[LVC]

The OP noted that it's easier to get the Axe to sound crappy than it is a real amp. That in my experience is true.

I think after v9 it is much easier to approach the AXE as a real amp (this is especially true after 10 and with 11 it is very easy).

The following is what works for me.

1. I stick with amps I know and have owned in the analog world. It is much easier (for me) to find and recognize the sweet spots when dialing in with the Axe
2. Do not mess with advanced parameters unless you know what you are doing (I don't so I stay away)
3. Treat your effects the same way you do on your pedalboard and set them up the same way
4. Dial in your presets at gig volume
5. Only focus and gig with just a couple of presets (you can get crazy later on)

I think if you do the above you will be able to put together some gig worthy presets in no time that you will be able to dial in to "pro" level after a couple of gigs.

 

[bammbamm]

Just to echo the comments here, the v11 amp parameters are pretty close to the real thing. So you don't need to really go beyond the basic parameters. Make sure you pick the right cab for the amp. Definitely tweak at gig volume and even better if you can soundcheck at the actual venue.

 

[Ben Randolph]

It really pays to sound check your setup before the show starts. I find that at the college auditorium I usually play at, I have to really dial back the reverb and delay in my patches. Patches that sound great in my studio sound over-processed and overdone in the auditorium. The room you're playing in has a huge effect on your overall sound.

 

[guitarmike]

If the axe is sending out an accurate signal, ie, one that truly represents the sound of a real guitar amp, why would you need to cut any bass or treble when using a frfr speaker? This makes absolutely no sense at all. If the speaker system is frfr, then it accurately represents what ever you put into it. If it is too thin, trebley or bassy, then it must be because the amp sim is dialed in that way, either by the manufacturer or the user or the ir is eq'd that way (wrong).

If you are using a frfr amp and a guitar type speaker, you simply remove the ir and the same rule applies.

Please explain to me where I am wrong.

 

[Gasp100]

If the axe is sending out an accurate signal, ie, one that truly represents the sound of a real guitar amp, why would you need to cut any bass or treble when using a frfr speaker? This makes absolutely no sense at all. If the speaker system is frfr, then it accurately represents what ever you put into it. If it is too thin, trebley or bassy, then it must be because the amp sim is dialed in that way, either by the manufacturer or the user or the ir is eq'd that way (wrong).

If you are using a frfr amp and a guitar type speaker, you simply remove the ir and the same rule applies.

Please explain to me where I am wrong.

FRFR is capable of reproducing frequencies well BELOW and well ABOVE what is normally achievable from a standard guitar cab. If the OP is coming from standard guitar cab I suggest implement frequency blocking (easily accessible in the cab block now) and opening it up as time goes on.
OP, a few things. how much if any guitar was coming from the house monitor that s dead center in front of you? Is it possible that monitor was throwing you off a bit?
Is this the first time that you have played with NO backline and relied completely on your monitoring signal coming back to you for guitar? If so, it's a BIG SHIFT!

 

[kush]

Your cab is on a stand, that's going to affect your tone big time. Did you dial in your patches with the cab in that position? If not that could explain the big difference in tone.

 

[luke]

You are use to having a sliver of the total EQ curve, now you can have a much wider base. You have to learn to reign in your lo and high cuts to get back into the realistic guitar range.

I adjust my presets by playing against my band's recordings, sans guitar, so I can tweak to jump out of the mix.

Record your band without you and keep those tracks for tweaking, it's a life and time saver.

 

[UnsungHeroGuitars]

I'm also kind of baffled why presets that I download from someone like Pete thorn sound terrible cranked up

They were way to thin and bright through my set up too - I'm not questioning the presets or IRs, it's just that through my set up, with my guitar / hands / ears, it just wasn't what I wanted

However, a few hours of tweaking those presets and comparing with other tones I like through the same rig (our full PA), all was golden :encouragement:

There can be so many variables. That's why I am so happy to own our PA, desk, in-ears etc with no backline whatsoever - it's such a consistent rig and it takes those variables right out of the equation


It's also why I don't really get into the preset sharing thing - there are so many things which will be different from one guys rig to another (that's before the question of personal taste comes into it) that it's just a crapshoot really. Yes, as I did with the Pete Thorn stuff, they can give a starting point, but I've honestly not downloaded one single patch which has ever hit the mark for me with no major adjustment required

 

[guitarmike]

FRFR is capable of reproducing frequencies well BELOW and well ABOVE what is normally achievable from a standard guitar cab.

If the axe is not producing frequencies outside the normal range of a typical guitar system, it doesn't matter. Let me say it another way, if the axe is producing a proper guitar signal then there are no frequencies that you need to attenuate. You would need a flat response speaker system with a range that goes up to at least the maximum frequency (harmonic content included) to properly reproduce the signal.

If you have a truly frfr speaker, and need to attenuate bass or treble frequencies, you have too much bass or treble in the first place. This would be the result of either a faulty simulation or a miss-dialed simulation or an improper ir.

If you have a true representation of a particular amp and an accurate ir of the speaker, and you feed this signal into a frfr speaker, then there should be no need to cut bass or treble frequencies.

If you need to cut bass or treble frequencies and the amp sim and ir are accurate, then you must not have a truly frfr system.

If I am wrong, please explain to me what I'm missing.

 

[guitarmike]

You are use to having a sliver of the total EQ curve, now you can have a much wider base. You have to learn to reign in your lo and high cuts to get back into the realistic guitar range.

I adjust my presets by playing against my band's recordings, sans guitar, so I can tweak to jump out of the mix.

Record your band without you and keep those tracks for tweaking, it's a life and time saver.

Exactly...

 

[reclavea]

If the axe is not producing frequencies outside the normal range of a typical guitar system, it doesn't matter. Let me say it another way, if the axe is producing a proper guitar signal then there are no frequencies that you need to attenuate. You would need a flat response speaker system with a range that goes up to at least the maximum frequency (harmonic content included) to properly reproduce the signal.

If you have a truly frfr speaker, and need to attenuate bass or treble frequencies, you have too much bass or treble in the first place. This would be the result of either a faulty simulation or a miss-dialed simulation or an improper ir.

If you have a true representation of a particular amp and an accurate ir of the speaker, and you feed this signal into a frfr speaker, then there should be no need to cut bass or treble frequencies.

If you need to cut bass or treble frequencies and the amp sim and ir are accurate, then you must not have a truly frfr system.

If I am wrong, please explain to me what I'm missing.

+1

But......given that amp simulations, irs, and the tone matching process are all fairly new technology.....the process are constantly being improved. There are so many irs and the capturing process may leave a lot to be desired. This may apply to the amp simulation process as well. There is still a lot of improvements down the road so I think these parameters helps fine tune what we individually, personally find lacking or wanting.

FW11 as far as the amps sound and feel is a huge step forward however!

 

[jlynnb1]

If the axe is sending out an accurate signal, ie, one that truly represents the sound of a real guitar amp, why would you need to cut any bass or treble when using a frfr speaker? This makes absolutely no sense at all. If the speaker system is frfr, then it accurately represents what ever you put into it. If it is too thin, trebley or bassy, then it must be because the amp sim is dialed in that way, either by the manufacturer or the user or the ir is eq'd that way (wrong).

If you are using a frfr amp and a guitar type speaker, you simply remove the ir and the same rule applies.

Please explain to me where I am wrong.

if i understand it correctly, there are frequencies that are present in a real guitar system, but the guitar cab and speaker aren't capable of reproducing them, so you don't hear them....FRFR can reproduce those freq's, so you hear them.

 

[guitarmike]

if i understand it correctly, there are frequencies that are present in a real guitar system, but the guitar cab and speaker aren't capable of reproducing them, so you don't hear them....FRFR can reproduce those freq's, so you hear them.

Not if the ir is correct...

 

[reclavea]

if i understand it correctly, there are frequencies that are present in a real guitar system, but the guitar cab and speaker aren't capable of reproducing them, so you don't hear them....FRFR can reproduce those freq's, so you hear them.

You lost me there somewhat.

IMHO .....A high end guitar system simulator like the axe is designed so that it gets you "there" as simply as possible with or without FRFR. Applying low-cut or hi-cut...etc should only personalize the patch and not "correct" deficiencies in the simulations. Granted some may do.....especially in the earlier generation axe and the earlier AxeII FW.

I find the amp sims way more usable now without much tweaking as before.

So....tweak a basic patch......run it to your DAW...record ....instant amp cab nirvana! ...or non-FRFR or FRFR!

 

[guitarmike]

the process are constantly being improved

Yes, but we're at fw 11.? 2nd generation axe fx. The sims have been close enough to not include excessive bass or treble for quite some time. Plus specific controls within the amp itself exist to compensate for different ir's and speaker systems.

There are so many irs and the capturing process may leave a lot to be desired

Fractal's ir capturing process may be suspect? And they include these "suspect" ir's in their flagship product? Surely not.

There is still a lot of improvements down the road so I think these parameters helps fine tune what we individually, personally find lacking or wanting.

Wait a minute, I thought it was virtually indistinguishable from the amps it simulates, ...what with mimic and all that.

So where exactly are we with the axeII?