Fender Twin Reverb

[jonPhillips]

Need some help here guys – I've read all of the stuff in the Wiki about dialing in the Fender amps and also how to go in search of that "elusive Fender glassiness", but I'm still not getting it. I have a 1976 100w Silverface (Master Vol model) and I just can't get the Axe to sound the same.

Signal path is Axe -> SLA-2 -> Band PA.

I've tried using the Redwire IRs and the stock cabinets, but it's missing something. Anyone have any advice for me?

 

[DonPetersen]

Need some help here guys – I've read all of the stuff in the Wiki about dialing in the Fender amps and also how to go in search of that "elusive Fender glassiness", but I'm still not getting it. I have a 1976 100w Silverface (Master Vol model) and I just can't get the Axe to sound the same.

Signal path is Axe -> SLA-2 -> Band PA.

I've tried using the Redwire IRs and the stock cabinets, but it's missing something. Anyone have any advice for me?

hi.
can you send me a recording of the sound your after? guitar only - some strumming, comping would be good. I'll pm you my email adress.

 

[jonPhillips]

PM sent.

 

[Dpoirier]

I would be very interested in any suggestions for a Fender Twin preset (I still haven't been able to get one with my Ultra). I'm sure others would also like to hear about it... ca you post further tips and suggestions here (in addition to your PM exchange)? Please?

 

[DonPetersen]

hey.

here's my first version of it. It's a quick tweak with the GEQ to see if we're talking about the same thing.

What I found interesting was:
- the 2x12 Tweed is closer than the 2x12 Black
- cut 1k, boost 2k a little, cut 4k, boost 8k is a good start
- the amp in the vid has a small 'bump' @ ~220Hz

let me know what you think.

(btw. patch was made on studio monitors - not sure how that'll relate to a PA, although the better the PA the better the result, I guess)

 

[jonPhillips]

hey.

here's my first version of it. It's a quick tweak with the GEQ to see if we're talking about the same thing.

Many thanks for this Don. It's late here and I need to pick my Axe up from my band's singer in the morning, but I'll check it out tomorrow and let you know how I get on.

 

[Jack Napalm]

hey.

here's my first version of it. It's a quick tweak with the GEQ to see if we're talking about the same thing.

What I found interesting was:
- the 2x12 Tweed is closer than the 2x12 Black
- cut 1k, boost 2k a little, cut 4k, boost 8k is a good start
- the amp in the vid has a small 'bump' @ ~220Hz

let me know what you think.

(btw. patch was made on studio monitors - not sure how that'll relate to a PA, although the better the PA the better the result, I guess)

This is pretty nice sounding. I don't know how it specifically compares to the Twin but it sounds nice. Any reason why you used the small room reverb instead of a spring reverb?

 

[ML SOUND LAB]

Once again I'm going to be the guy who tells you not to use GEQ/PEQ. It's very easy to get a Fender tone IMO. Not sure about those twangy tones but I'm very happy with mine. Like the Lonestar patch I made. Remove the effects and you have a really nice Fender clean tone: viewtopic.php?f=25&t=19658

I'm using the Mesa cab to make it sound more Mesa, but you can use other cabs. Those are pretty basic settings though.

 

[jonPhillips]

Once again I'm going to be the guy who tells you not to use GEQ/PEQ.

Why do you say that Clark?

 

[DonPetersen]

Once again I'm going to be the guy who tells you not to use GEQ/PEQ.

dude,

I like your stuff but general statements like that are pointless.
The GEQ and PEQ are very nice sounding EQs - easily rivals UAD stuff and Waves API.
Once again Joe Meek to the rescue: "If it sounds right, it is right."
Who cares how you got there?

and, btw. I don't need ppl 'telling' me how to do what I do. That's one reason why I've been sucessfully working freelance for 15+ years.

 

[DonPetersen]

This is pretty nice sounding. I don't know how it specifically compares to the Twin but it sounds nice. Any reason why you used the small room reverb instead of a spring reverb?

thanks.
my patch shows 'LG Spring', like it should. :geek: :?:

 

[yek]

This is pretty nice sounding. I don't know how it specifically compares to the Twin but it sounds nice. Any reason why you used the small room reverb instead of a spring reverb?

thanks.
my patch shows 'LG Spring', like it should. :geek: :?:

Different firmware?

 

[DonPetersen]

This is pretty nice sounding. I don't know how it specifically compares to the Twin but it sounds nice. Any reason why you used the small room reverb instead of a spring reverb?

thanks.
my patch shows 'LG Spring', like it should. :geek: :?:

you're right.
on my Axe it's LG Spring, in the posted preset it's Sm Room.

*fixed*

 

[jonPhillips]

I have to say a big thanks here Don, that's so close to the sound I was after. I've also tried it with a Redwire mix which really brings it to life even more, it's jumping out of my FRFR speakers now, with real clarity.

FWIW, the recipe I used was:

TwinJensenC12N-R121-CapEdge-2in.wav 0.486
TwinJensenC12N-SM57-CapEdge-2in.wav 0.486
TwinJensenC12N-TC30-Back-0in.wav 0.028

However, the reverb type has loaded as MD Room - sounds great but maybe not what you intended, so I kept all of the settings the same and just changed the type to LG Spring and bingo, there's the sound I was after.

Thank you so much for taking the time to make and share the patch.

(I'd still be interested to hear Clark's reasons for not using GEQ/PEQ - the GEQ seems to have made all the difference here...)

 

[ML SOUND LAB]

There's nothing lacking in the quality of the Axe-Fx EQs.

The PEQ/GEQ are both great tools but most of the time I see them being used "wrong". With "wrong" I mean as a tool to shape the overall sound. In amps like the Mesa Mark IV it's an essential part of the amp so it's a different thing. I also see people using their real life EQ pedals in weird ways. Like "I want all the low end I can get so I'm going to boost them to maximum". Or I see people scooping amps that are naturally scooped like the Recto f.ex. Sure professional guitarist use those huge EQ racks on stage but once again that's a different thing.

I've heard this so many times from studio engineer professionals that it's kind of a rule I tend to obey: EQ (even UAD and API which I hardly ever use on guitar tracks) is always compensating for something you could fix in another way. There are EQ knobs on the amp sim which will make the overall tone sound a lot more natural. Boosting frequencies after the amp/cab block will most likely sound a bit unnatural if boosted/cut more than just 1-2dB. This depends on many things though but if you get a decent sound with just the amp block and cab block you can trust that it will sound great in the end. The only EQ I use on guitars is lowcut and if the tone is too fizzy I use a de-esser at 5500hz-ish.

Remember that if you have GEQ/PEQ in your patch and you record using that patch, then you can't remove those EQ settings and most of the time people do EQ in an early stage and then have to compensate for bad EQing in the DAW. This will take a loooooong time to fix so I'd rather record with a boomy sound and add lowcut later in the DAW than cut the lows in the Axe-Fx. Ofcourse many signature sounds are based on a certain EQ and that's a different thing. These guys know what they want and know how to get it. I'm not saying "you don't know what you are doing". I'm simply saying "less is more". My signature sound would be the global EQ I'm using which is just a clarity thing. I cut 63 off and 250hz -7,5dB. Those are guitar frequencies which I don't want and I've calculated them very accurately so that I can trust those settings. I compared them to real amps and their responses with the same EQ settings in the amps. It's complicated but it works.

IMHO the worst thing in these Axe-Fx EQs is that they both have a graphic display. Sometimes users tweak so that the EQ only looks good. "There, now it's a beautiful rainbow shape... Now it's Mount Everest! Wee!" The best way to learn how an EQ works is to work with an EQ that only has knobs. This way you're sure you're just listening and you know what frequency does what and how Q affects it tonewise. Okay I can talk about this subject for hours but I guess I've made my point...

 

[yek]

There's nothing lacking in the quality of the Axe-Fx EQs.

The PEQ/GEQ are both great tools but most of the time I see them being used "wrong". (...)

Hey Clark, you'd better find yourself a hiding place fast, because you're about to get flamed by others for this statement in sooooo many ways in the coming hours. :lol: :lol:

My take: there's no "wrong". To each his/her own way of accomplishing things. If everyone would adhere to "there's only one way", there would be no experiments, no innovation, no discoveries. And furthermore your "wrong" might be another one's "right". There's no law in music, creating and recording. You may have your own rules for creating tones, and they may work great for you. But that doesn't mean that you can proclaim those as rules-for-everybody. Which by the way tend to change considerably as time passes by. /rant off

 

[ML SOUND LAB]

Let's keep things in context. The OP is having a hard time getting Fender tones and my advice is that "less is more" will get him there. My advice is not to use EQ since he wasn't using EQ pedals with his Fender either.

There are different schools. Some think EQ will get you where ever you will go. Some think EQ can go wrong in many ways and I'm clearly one of those.

 

[Dutch]

AxeFX Cab sims are just intricate EQ curves. What should we do with those?

In the analog world inserting another thing in the chain means degradation. In the Axe-FX that is unnoticable. The physical law is bypassed in that digital realm.

BTW, Clark, I do get what you're saying and I agree to a point. This is one of those times where I think the EQ is necessary. Obviously he wasn't getting there without it. There are differences between the OPs Twin and Cliffs. And don't forget all the other stuff like acoustics, guitar, fingers, etc. The EQ is the bandaid.

 

[yek]

Let's keep things in context. The OP is having a hard time getting Fender tones and my advice is that "less is more" will get him there. My advice is not to use EQ since he wasn't using EQ pedals with his Fender either.

Sure! In context: he's having a hard time recreating his 'in the room' Fender tone (real amp, cab, no mic), using an Axe-Fx into an poweramp into the PA. Different situation, different methods.

 

[Jack Napalm]

This is pretty nice sounding. I don't know how it specifically compares to the Twin but it sounds nice. Any reason why you used the small room reverb instead of a spring reverb?

thanks.
my patch shows 'LG Spring', like it should. :geek: :?:

you're right.
on my Axe it's LG Spring, in the posted preset it's Sm Room.

*fixed*

Cool. I was wondering if I missed something in why it was Sm Room. It sounded better to me with a spring reverb.