Euro Blue and Red excursion switch

[skolacki]

IIRC, the excursion switches were a way around a patent that Peavey held for a variable depth pot.

Peavey patented that? The 1st I saw depth control was on the SLO100. I tried it in my amp too but took it out to do something else with the pot. For the record the 1st 5150 made by Peavey was almost an exact copy of the SLO. Same with the Rectos. There’s a history of companies successfully patenting things that other people came up with. Randall Smith was a little infamous for doing that.

 

[rcm78]

Peavey patented that? The 1st I saw depth control was on the SLO100. I tried it in my amp too but took it out to do something else with the pot. For the record the 1st 5150 made by Peavey was almost an exact copy of the SLO. Same with the Rectos. There’s a history of companies successfully patenting things that other people came up with. Randall Smith was a little infamous for doing that.

Yup. Jim Brown patented it. Bogner got around it by using a three way switch instead of a pot.

 

[FractalAudio]

All good. Cliff has said depth. Cant say I'm convinced. The real amp blocks negative feedback boosting lower frequencies to the speaker. The frequency and amount of negative feedback changes based on the position of the switch. I'm inclined to think the switch wasn't modeled and the depth control is a close approximation.

Depth controls work by reducing negative feedback at low frequencies. It's a corollary to presence which works by reducing negative feedback at high frequencies.

The Ecstacy uses a switch with three fixed resistor values. The model uses a pot instead.

The model is based on a 20th Anniversary addition. It is different than a 101 and, hence, will sound different than your amp.

 

[Randalljax]

Depth controls work by reducing negative feedback at low frequencies. It's a corollary to presence which works by reducing negative feedback at high frequencies.

The Ecstacy uses a switch with three fixed resistor values. The model uses a pot instead.

The model is based on a 20th Anniversary addition. It is different than a 101 and, hence, will sound different than your amp.

Cliff for people that are trying to get the 101b do you know the values of the depth cap from the schematic to advise the frequency to set the depth at for the 101b T M L modes

 

[rcm78]

Depth controls work by reducing negative feedback at low frequencies. It's a corollary to presence which works by reducing negative feedback at high frequencies.

The Ecstacy uses a switch with three fixed resistor values. The model uses a pot instead.

The model is based on a 20th Anniversary addition. It is different than a 101 and, hence, will sound different than your amp.

This is how I understood it to work. Since so many specific settings are shared on the Wiki including the Ecstasy bright cap settings I didnt think asking for the Excursion settings was out of bounds.

 

[E-Sound]

Depth controls work by reducing negative feedback at low frequencies. It's a corollary to presence which works by reducing negative feedback at high frequencies.

The Ecstacy uses a switch with three fixed resistor values. The model uses a pot instead.

The model is based on a 20th Anniversary addition. It is different than a 101 and, hence, will sound different than your amp.

As far as I know, the 20th anniversary XTC uses different cap values for excursion M and L.

M uses .0047uf
L uses .01uf

Can this be simulated with the depth knob? Or is the model only using the .0047uf cap (or maybe the .01uf cap)?

Or have I been completely misinformed (always a possibility)

 

[skolacki]

As far as I know, the 20th anniversary XTC uses different cap values for excursion M and L.

M uses .0047uf
L uses .01uf

Can this be simulated with the depth knob? Or is the model only using the .0047uf cap (or maybe the .01uf cap)?

Or have I been completely misinformed (always a possibility)

There is a depth frequency parameter. That would be the cap value changing the frequency response. As to what setting equates to what value cap I have no idea. Just try different settings until you’re happy with how it sounds.

 

[E-Sound]

There is a depth frequency parameter. That would be the cap value changing the frequency response. As to what setting equates to what value cap I have no idea. Just try different settings until you’re happy with how it sounds.

Isn’t the depth knob changing resistor values (hence the name “variable resistor”)? Here we’re talking about cap values.

The depth knob sets the amount of bass boost. But the cap decides the cut off point for frequencies that are boosted.

 

[Randalljax]

Isn’t the depth knob changing resistor values (hence the name “variable resistor”)? Here we’re talking about cap values.

The depth knob sets the amount of bass boost. But the cap decides the cut off point for frequencies that are boosted.

Correct you would need to know the freq that the those cap values produce

 

[skolacki]

Isn’t the depth knob changing resistor values (hence the name “variable resistor”)? Here we’re talking about cap values.

The depth knob sets the amount of bass boost. But the cap decides the cut off point for frequencies that are boosted.

Yes E-Sound was talking about cap values. That’s why I brought up the depth frequency parameter.

 

[E-Sound]

Yes E-Sound was talking about cap values. That’s why I brought up the depth frequency parameter.

Oh, sorry! I missed that!
You might be correct there actually.

 

[Phosphenetre]

The Euro model has the Bogner low mid voicing but I can’t tweak it to sound like my amp. I’ve AB’d for hours.

That's certainly disappointing to hear. Coming into the Fractal universe from another modelling platform last month, the Ecstasy was the #1 amp model I was excited to finally have access to. Is your physical amp the Anniversary EL34 though, or one of the other versions of the Ecstasy?

 

[FractalAudio]

As far as I know, the 20th anniversary XTC uses different cap values for excursion M and L.

M uses .0047uf
L uses .01uf

Can this be simulated with the depth knob? Or is the model only using the .0047uf cap (or maybe the .01uf cap)?

Or have I been completely misinformed (always a possibility)

You've been misinformed.

The values for the L, M and T are 1M, 180K, 0 ohms. The capacitor does not change.

 

[E-Sound]

You've been misinformed.

The values for the L, M and T are 1M, 180K, 0 ohms. The capacitor does not change.

Thanks for clearing that up!

 

[rcm78]

That's certainly disappointing to hear. Coming into the Fractal universe from another modelling platform last month, the Ecstasy was the #1 amp model I was excited to finally have access to. Is your physical amp the Anniversary EL34 though, or one of the other versions of the Ecstasy?

My amp is a 2001 101b Classic so it's not the same as the modeled 20th anniversary amp.

 

[Phosphenetre]

My amp is a 2001 101b Classic so it's not the same as the modeled 20th anniversary amp.

Right. It does make sense that the model would sound different then. I've seen clips of the 101B (regular, not Classic) and the Anniversary running through the same cab, dialled in the same way and played side by side through an A/B switcher, and they sound very different.

 

[Randalljax]

Right. It does make sense that the model would sound different then. I've seen clips of the 101B (regular, not Classic) and the Anniversary running through the same cab, dialled in the same way and played side by side through an A/B switcher, and they sound very different.

There are so many versions of that amp and they all sound a bit different
The Classic was more open less compressed

The original 101b of the 90s and pre 2004 had the best overall tone IMO it had that chewy low mids unique
And a lot of clarity and definition it was tight but had a bounce a the same time
Most would call this the one to have

The 101b changed the Red channel in 2004 against his preference Bogner added more gain , this amp on the red has more compression and a bit more sing and sustain for leads but comes at the expense of some clarity IMO notes tend to smear especially if you want to play heavy Rythm

The 20th was based around 6l6 tubes initially and they gave the option of 34 later but I don’t think it’s the same as 101b the blue channel has less gain and the Red is more upper mid or closer to a Marshall

The 3534 small head is more based on the 101b and the Red channel has the post 2004 gain mod and maybe even a bit more

The new 50 watt changes that again but reverting back to the original classic more open less compressed less gain and more Marshall mids

 

[CrimsonKing]

I have had most of the Ecstasy amps. The 101B is the most compressed and darkest. Bogner uses a log treble pot, which means that from 0 - noon the pot only changes around 10 percent or so, sweep-wise. Also the mid pot is like a high shelf knob that starts in the mids, around 500-600Hz or so. This is why people have trouble dialing in these amps, but it's part of the signature sound.

I prefer the less compressed 100A, Classic & 20th Anniversary versions. They're just more dynamic. I actually have one of the first, if not the first 20th Anniversary model. It came with EL34 (custom order). I had it changed back to 6L6 and it sounds more balanced and perhaps a little less compressed. In talking with Jorg at Bogner he informed me that due to the design, there is more midrange in the circuit than other models and that 6L6 balances the design philosophy.

 

[rcm78]

I have had most of the Ecstasy amps. The 101B is the most compressed and darkest. Bogner uses a log treble pot, which means that from 0 - noon the pot only changes around 10 percent or so, sweep-wise. Also the mid pot is like a high shelf knob that starts in the mids, around 500-600Hz or so. This is why people have trouble dialing in these amps, but it's part of the signature sound.

I prefer the less compressed 100A, Classic & 20th Anniversary versions. They're just more dynamic. I actually have one of the first, if not the first 20th Anniversary model. It came with EL34 (custom order). I had it changed back to 6L6 and it sounds more balanced and perhaps a little less compressed. In talking with Jorg at Bogner he informed me that due to the design, there is more midrange in the circuit than other models and that 6L6 balances the design philosophy.

The Classic was an attempt to get back to the original 100A sound. I absolutely love that amp. By far the most dynamic channel switcher I've owned.

 

[rcm78]

My original goal was to get as close to how I set my amp up. I was able to get the model and the amp to sound pretty much the same but it wasnt my sound. When I dialed my amp the way I like it, and tried to get the model there, the model had an upper mid character my amp doesn't have. Makes sense, the 20th is supposed to be brighter and more Marshally then a 101b. I feel its missing that chewy, woody tone the Blue channel is famous for... But then again, I felt the same way about the single 20th 101A I played. My buddy quickly sold that amp.