Euro Blue and Red excursion switch

rcm78 said:
My original goal was to get as close to how I set my amp up. I was able to get the model and the amp to sound pretty much the same but it wasnt my sound. When I dialed my amp the way I like it, and tried to get the model there, the model had an upper mid character my amp doesn't have. Makes sense, the 20th is supposed to be brighter and more Marshally then a 101b. I feel its missing that chewy, woody tone the Blue channel is famous for... But then again, I felt the same way about the single 20th 101A I played. My buddy quickly sold that amp.
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I Think the blue channel in the 20th is the most different , it has less gain and you are right lacks that midrange chew
 
CrimsonKing said:
I have had most of the Ecstasy amps. The 101B is the most compressed and darkest. Bogner uses a log treble pot, which means that from 0 - noon the pot only changes around 10 percent or so, sweep-wise. Also the mid pot is like a high shelf knob that starts in the mids, around 500-600Hz or so. This is why people have trouble dialing in these amps, but it's part of the signature sound.

I prefer the less compressed 100A, Classic & 20th Anniversary versions. They're just more dynamic. I actually have one of the first, if not the first 20th Anniversary model. It came with EL34 (custom order). I had it changed back to 6L6 and it sounds more balanced and perhaps a little less compressed. In talking with Jorg at Bogner he informed me that due to the design, there is more midrange in the circuit than other models and that 6L6 balances the design philosophy.
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there are also 2 different versions of the amp depending on year , if it after 2004 the amp is darker . more compressed and more smear IMO the pre 2004 before Bogner did the gain mod, were more articulate

Now he has the new Pandora XTC, which is basically the Classic , 101b, 20th voicing on a switch
same with gain structure (schizo switch) there is classic 101b and new mode top fuel (likely the gain mod and 3534 Red mode )
and 2 different pres setting , 2 different depth settings etc etc
 
Randalljax said:
there are also 2 different versions of the amp depending on year , if it after 2004 the amp is darker . more compressed and more smear IMO the pre 2004 before Bogner did the gain mod, were more articulate

Now he has the new Pandora XTC, which is basically the Classic , 101b, 20th voicing on a switch
same with gain structure (schizo switch) there is classic 101b and new mode top fuel (likely the gain mod and 3534 Red mode )
and 2 different pres setting , 2 different depth settings etc etc
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Keep in mind, the post 2004 mod was exclusive to the red channel.
 
rcm78 said:
My original goal was to get as close to how I set my amp up. I was able to get the model and the amp to sound pretty much the same but it wasnt my sound. When I dialed my amp the way I like it, and tried to get the model there, the model had an upper mid character my amp doesn't have. Makes sense, the 20th is supposed to be brighter and more Marshally then a 101b. I feel its missing that chewy, woody tone the Blue channel is famous for... But then again, I felt the same way about the single 20th 101A I played. My buddy quickly sold that amp.
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How do you feel about the Red channel in the model vs your 101B's Red channel?
 
What do you guys feel is the closest thing (ie. among all the amp models in the Fractals) to the 101B Blue and Red channels in Fractal land right now?

Is it still the Euro Blue and Red, or do some other amps in the Fractals come closer to the 101B Blue and Red channel sound and feel? The Legacy comes to mind as a potential contender, for example.
 
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Phosphenetre said:
What do you guys feel is the closest thing to the 101B Blue and Red channels in Fractal land right now?
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The Euro blue and Red are really the only models of the
XTC if your asking what amps could be similar maybe a Freidman Smallbox for the blue and HBE for the Red They have some similarities as they are both a smoother , DarkerMarshall variant but still they are different
The 101b feel is pretty unique
 
Randalljax said:
The Euro blue and Red are really the only models of the
XTC if your asking what amps could be similar maybe a Freidman Smallbox for the blue and HBE for the Red They have some similarities as they are both a smoother , DarkerMarshall variant but still they are different
The 101b feel is pretty unique
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Yeah, I meant among all the amp models in the Fractals. I've edited my post to be more clear too.

I'll give the Friedman Smallbox and HBE a shot soon. Do they get closer to the 101B than the Euro Blue and Red, though?
 
Randalljax said:
I would agree the 101b is like the iconic XTC IMO
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Yeah, I think I agree with this. The 101B is the legendary XTC.

However, I would argue that the 20th anniversary is a little bit more versatile. It doesn’t have the same amount of low mids as the 101B and also has more top end. That makes it more versatile, even though you loose some of that Bogner low mid growl.
 
Phosphenetre said:
What do you guys feel is the closest thing (ie. among all the amp models in the Fractals) to the 101B Blue and Red channels in Fractal land right now?

Is it still the Euro Blue and Red, or do some other amps in the Fractals come closer to the 101B Blue and Red channel sound and feel? The Legacy comes to mind as a potential contender, for example.
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Euro Blue, which simulates the vintage mode of the 20th Ann. model. I can get pretty close to the 101B Blue with the real amp in this mode. The modern mode is too aggressive to get close to a 101B. If you need to add more sag then you can do that.
 
CrimsonKing said:
Euro Blue, which simulates the vintage mode of the 20th Ann. model. I can get pretty close to the 101B Blue with the real amp in this mode. The modern mode is too aggressive to get close to a 101B. If you need to add more sag then you can do that.
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Yes, The Euro Blue is nice. I've tried maxing the gain and lowering the input trim to get close to the Plexi Mode. It's a good sound but the note separation, chewy Bogner characteristic isn't quite there.

For those participating in this thread. I used my amp with in ears for the majority of time I gigged with it. I blocked the speaker cab and only heard the amp after the 57 I had on the Scumback M75 speaker. So no amp in the room confusion going on here.
 
rcm78 said:
Yes, The Euro Blue is nice. I've tried maxing the gain and lowering the input trim to get close to the Plexi Mode. It's a good sound but the note separation, chewy Bogner characteristic isn't quite there.

For those participating in this thread. I used my amp with in ears for the majority of time I gigged with it. I blocked the speaker cab and only heard the amp after the 57 I had on the Scumback M75 speaker. So no amp in the room confusion going on here.
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Stupid question but have you tried a tonestack swap
What if you kept the Bogner Bue but switched the actual tone stack to Plexi
 
Randalljax said:
Stupid question but have you tried a tonestack swap
What if you kept the Bogner Bue but switched the actual tone stack to Plexi
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No I haven't. On the wiki it says the Euro Blue is a standard Marshall tone stack. A later entry says the tone stack tapers match the amp... Cant hurt to try a few different tone stacks...
 
rcm78 said:
No I haven't. On the wiki it says the Euro Blue is a standard Marshall tone stack. A later entry says the tone stack tapers match the amp... Cant hurt to try a few different tone stacks...
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I suspect that the presence taper in the models don’t match the real amp.

The models presence knob defaults to 3.5, which is a weirdly low value for an already dark sounding amp. So that makes me believe that 3.5 is the same as noon (12:00) on the real amp.

Bass, middle and treble should match the real amp though.
 
E-Sound said:
I suspect that the presence taper in the models don’t match the real amp.

The models presence knob defaults to 3.5, which is a weirdly low value for an already dark sounding amp. So that makes me believe that 3.5 is the same as noon (12:00) on the real amp.

Bass, middle and treble should match the real amp though.
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Possibly even higher Jason Tong from Headfirst amps did a video on it I think the Bogner Treb and pres pots on 5 are the equivalent of a Marshall JCM800 on 1
He said 7 or 8 is about where the amp starts to really open up more for his taste
Similar to the 5153 stealth the pres does not really do much until you hit 8.5 to 9.5
Most of the noticeable range is there
 
Randalljax said:
Possibly even higher Jason Tong from Headfirst amps did a video on it I think the Bogner Treb and pres pots on 5 are the equivalent of a Marshall JCM800 on 1
He said 7 or 8 is about where the amp starts to really open up more for his taste
Similar to the 5153 stealth the pres does not really do much until you hit 8.5 to 9.5
Most of the noticeable range is there
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I ran the treble and presence on my Classic at 3 O’Clock. I find the model pot tapers match the amp.
 
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