Electro-Voice PXM-12MP report

[Truthe_Yashikawa]

I have two that I bought to use at a rehearsal place. I have been using RCF NX 12 speakers for years and love them. I keep the RCF speakers at my house and use output one to feed them or go to FOH. I did not want to move them back and forth from home to rehearsals.

The EV PXM 12MP looked close to the RCF's but 1/2 the cost so I gave them a try using output 2 and global eq to adjust. I was able to get pretty close to what RCF sounded like with using the AXE FX 3 output 2 eq and the EQ on the EV'S with out making any changes to my patches.

They are much better than the RCF on the dispersion of sound. I can move around much more and not lose the sweet spot.

My RCF'S are still #1 for tone but may have been bump out due to how close I got the EV to sound with much better coverage of sound.

I'm lookin for some FRFRs and could use some people's opinions...I've done a lot of research and I've narrowed it down a bit:

You say RCFs are best for tone (which makes me want them)
Yamaha DXR10s (Apparently tons of people have and love these also and I've heard a youtube video where they sounded great!)
The EV PXM-12MP are also very high up on my list from what people are saying...but if the RCFs have superior tone why not get the RCFs.
Finally JBL SRX812P is a serious contender!

I play a lot of stuff but mainly heavy metal sort of things.

 

[MKeditor]

I ruled out the RCF because it's very expensive and support is very limited in the USA. I have Atomic CLRs and one blew an amp. Support is saying a minimum of 90 days to handle this. Many have waited far longer. One took a YEAR! That's not acceptable for me. I wasn't aware of the slow support when I bought them. You might want to factor that in your choice.

 

[Truthe_Yashikawa]

I ruled out the RCF because it's very expensive and support is very limited in the USA. I have Atomic CLRs and one blew an amp. Support is saying a minimum of 90 days to handle this. Many have waited far longer. One took a YEAR! That's not acceptable for me. I wasn't aware of the slow support when I bought them. You might want to factor that in your choice.

I don't care about price I'm lookin to spend up to £1.5k support for RCF NX 12 is fine in the U.K. Atomic CLRs while very decent I've heard a lot of people prefer the EV PXM-12MP over the CLRs!

But then there is the silent warrior, the JBL! JBL are an exception brand and make high quality stuff so I'm very tempted with the JBL SRX812P!

So in short those 4 stand out for me the RCF the EVs, Yamaha DR12 and the JBLs.

The Yamaha's are the cheaper option, the RCF and JBLs are practically 2x the price...it may be better to have a look for some higher end Yamaha speakers too! Maybe these Yamaha DZR12! They are in the same price range.

My gripe is that this guy played a Kemper through a CLR and a Yam DXR10 and the Yam blew the CLR away! CLR had a nice tone but the DXR had a more powerful sound and I wonder if the DXRs are voiced a little more on the bassey side to make em sound so boomy! Perhaps this means at higher levels the DXRs won't cut it, or maybe they will rock! I don't know. I have heard someone say the DXRs are lacking in much higher volume levels, they just can't push that sound and they start to sound cheap (long story short)!

the JBLs seem to have a very flat sound without fukin about with any settings which is what we are all lookin for here...as it stands I need to seriously research the JBL, RCF and look at the higher end Yamaha!

-UPDATE- Just saw a youtube vid AXFX using RCF, sounds INCREDIBLE. Also some guy using QSC 10.2s amazing again! I'm truly torn!

 

[greiswig]

You're putting yourself in circles. Try some out, and see what works for you. Note also what your use case is: do you need long projection, or short-range dispersion? Is this going to be used on the floor at your feet, or as backline, or something else? Whatever you audition, audition with those in mind.

 

[Sixstring]

I'm lookin for some FRFRs and could use some people's opinions...I've done a lot of research and I've narrowed it down a bit:

You say RCFs are best for tone (which makes me want them)
Yamaha DXR10s (Apparently tons of people have and love these also and I've heard a youtube video where they sounded great!)
The EV PXM-12MP are also very high up on my list from what people are saying...but if the RCFs have superior tone why not get the RCFs.
Finally JBL SRX812P is a serious contender!

I play a lot of stuff but mainly heavy metal sort of things.

Tone? an FR solution should not impart any tone other than what you put into it! I know a lot of people like the DXR10's but I found them mid hyped. For some that might be just what they want or need.

I think the EV's fit that bill without being extremely expensive or heavy. As you spend more I think what you might get a little more in the quality department. Just like anything else there is a point of diminishing returns. I have personally not played through the RCF's but they do receive a lot of praise. The price difference between RCF NX12 SMA's and the EV's is not completely crazy.

The CLR's are sold out so you would have to buy used or get on a list? not sure. I can say they do reproduce faithfully! so if you can find one or a pair jump on them but get the Neo's as the original is a tad heavy.

I haven't had the chance to play through a JBL SRX series either but I do know that FAS uses them so that should tell you something.

 

[unix-guy]

-UPDATE- Just saw a youtube vid AXFX using RCF, sounds INCREDIBLE. Also some guy using QSC 10.2s amazing again! I'm truly torn!

As I already said in your thread, you cannot judge an FRFR speaker by watching a video...

 

[Sashman]

As I already said in your thread, you cannot judge an FRFR speaker by watching a video...

I told him the same but he is just ignoring it.

 

[Truthe_Yashikawa]

I haven't had the chance to play through a JBL SRX series either but I do know that FAS uses them so that should tell you something.

FAS - Why won't you (this band?)​

As I already said in your thread, you cannot judge an FRFR speaker by watching a video...

I'm just gettin an idea about things I would like to try and why people like/dislike them!

 

[Sixstring]

FAS - Why won't you (this band?)

Not quite sure what you are getting at with that comment?

If you are just trying to get an idea based on the response from this thread you should be sufficiently be armed with enough info to make an informed decision on the brands you have mentioned!

If money is no object then go for a pair of Meyer MJF 210's! Not your typical monitor that is used by forum members.

 

[Sashman]

FAS - Why won't you (this band?)​

I'm just gettin an idea about things I would like to try and why people like/dislike them!

I totally understand that but sound/tone is very subjective and that is the reason why you have to try as many speakers as you can in person.
I personally have tested more than 30 FRFR Speakers and I prefer their RedSound MF10 or Elis8 over all of them, including the CLR/Xitone/Friedman etc. (I did a review on them here)
And what does that exactly mean for you? Right, absolutely nothing because you do maybe not like what I like and that is absolutely ok.

No one wants to bother you, it’s the opposite, everyone wants to help you. We can only make recommendations but you have to try them out in person.
Best way is, take you Fractal unit to the next music shop and try out as many speakers you can.
Maybe you will be surprised and you find something that no one has recommended so far.

Cheers
Sash

 

[MKeditor]

I just posted a review of EV vs CLR:

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/ev-pxm-12mp-vs-atomic-clr.180576/

 

[unix-guy]

I'm just gettin an idea about things I would like to try and why people like/dislike them!

But you keep posting about how great these (various) FRFR sound in videos...

 

[Greg Ferguson]

Best way is, take you Fractal unit to the next music shop and try out as many speakers you can.
Maybe you will be surprised and you find something that no one has recommended so far.

I agree.

I’d also recommend to not try tweaking the preset for EQ before going. You want the speakers that sound best with the least tweaking, otherwise you will have to tweak even more in different rooms. And turn up the system because volume is important. Something that sounds good quiet will probably sound lousy loud, and vice-versa.

And, for reference, here's the published frequency response for the PXM-12MP cabinets. I run mine on the MONITOR 2 setting. I like it because it's pretty flat, and is closest to the "Guitar Cab" response but with the flatter high end response like I'd expect a FRFR to have. YMMV.


When auditioning cabinets it might help to do a frequency sweep to find resonances in the room with the speaker. Create a preset using just a synth block --> OUT 1 and add Per-Performance Preset Controls for SYN1 Frequency and SYN1 Level, so you can easily pinpoint hotspots.

 

[greiswig]

@Greg Ferguson I think I see why I gravitated toward the tripod mode with the bass and treble turned down a bit, based on those published curves. I can't say I understand why they would put peaks and dips of 3-4dB on the top end in the Monitor settings.

Nice trick about the synth block. I'll have to try that one.

 

[Greg Ferguson]

I can't say I understand why they would put peaks and dips of 3-4dB on the top end in the Monitor settings.

They don't "put" them there, they're natural resonances or just how the speakers perform. NO speaker or cabinet is totally flat. "FRFR" is not totally flat, it's just an attempt to try to create something flatter and more full range than a standard guitar cabinet.

 

[Truthe_Yashikawa]

I haven't had the chance to play through a JBL SRX series either but I do know that FAS uses them so that should tell you something.

You said FAS uses them I thought FAS was a band but I'm starting to think he is a member of this forum!

But you keep posting about how great these (various) FRFR sound in videos...

Yeah to be perfectly honest I don't think there will be just 1 speaker I think is best, I'm pretty sure there will be a handful that work just fine for me! So I'd like to hear from as many people as possible.

A lot of people say tone is subjective which to a large extent is true but it can also be objective....just because you like something doesn't make it better e.g. comparing a piece of trash super budget amp tone compared to a super famous high end one; 99% of people go for the high end because they think it's better (which I would argue IT IS!).

Objectivity is especially prevalent when looking for something as specific as an FRFR because you're not saying for example "get an ENGL its better for heavy metal or the Marshall etc. Those 2 amps can do heavy metal equally but sound different, THAT is what is subjective, because it depends what higher end tone you are looking for...but in the case of FRFR you can easily filter this process out because you can take your MP3 player and test these speakers out and IMO it's really easy to hear things like this speaker is too punchy or bass-y, or treble-y, because you are looking for a sound that isn't distorting...however it is WAY more difficult to know if your modeller is being reproduced flat because it will sound different depending on which speaker you put it in and settings in one may sound better in another speaker which does not mean it is the "flatter" speaker and that's because we have no reference as to HOW GOOD the modeller is, if it was perfect you could compare the tone you are getting to the real thing and boom 100% you can tell if it's flat and reproducing the correct sound, which I why I have been told by others to test it on MP3s at various volumes and such first to get a good idea and feel of the speaker.

In conclusion a lot of people out there have been through a bunch of FRFRs and the more I can hear from those people the better decisions I can make...for example I've filtered out speakers like the Yamaha DXR12s or the QSC K12.2. for specific reasons like having a boomy slightly over bass-y kind of sound, their non wood cases which don't vibrate well at high volumes or the fact that these speakers at loud volumes don't have as much clarity as say the CLRs.

So I end with again saying, I'm sure there are a ton of great FRFRs and I'm pretty confident I'd be happy with anyone of them!

 

[greiswig]

They don't "put" them there, they're natural resonances or just how the speakers perform. NO speaker or cabinet is totally flat. "FRFR" is not totally flat, it's just an attempt to try to create something flatter and more full range than a standard guitar cabinet.

I don’t know. I’m no expert, but If they’re resonances, I would expect to see them across all the curves. And those are also the kinds of things the DSP is supposed to compensate for, isn’t it?

 

[Greg Ferguson]

You said FAS uses them I thought FAS was a band but I'm starting to think he is a member of this forum!

“FAS” = “Fractal Audio Systems”

 

[unix-guy]

You said FAS uses them I thought FAS was a band but I'm starting to think he is a member of this forum!

“FAS” = “Fractal Audio Systems”

And in this case the original comment was most likely about Cliff (Fractal main man, forum member fractalaudio).

 

[Mystic38]

I don’t know. I’m no expert, but If they’re resonances, I would expect to see them across all the curves. And those are also the kinds of things the DSP is supposed to compensate for, isn’t it?

There are multiple cabinet resonances due to material choice, drivers, driver matching, cabinet bracing & dimensions then there are multiple interactions that a cabinet has with the room.. whether the floor, an adjacent wall(s) and the room dimensions.. each and all of which can add resonances.. You also have to know the test conditions for those curves..looks to be in a room and not free field.

Anyway, at the end of the day lol, this is what the output EQ is for. I use one for OUT1 for headphones and monitors to give a realistic guitar cab sound as they sound sterile, and OUT2 is for my amp/cab "FRFR" with its own output EQ