Dynamic range issues

Have you tried recording the same way but using a factory preset-just as it is. no adjusting anything from what you already have. That sounds like a logical step to me and very easily done.
 
Stratman68 said:
Have you tried recording the same way but using a factory preset-just as it is. no adjusting anything from what you already have. That sounds like a logical step to me and very easily done.
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reported he tried with shunts only with the same problem.
 
2db of DR in a clean sound? It should sound like shit... Not only because of the noise but also because to achieve that kind of compression without soundind that bad you need a complex chain with multband comps, etc...
 
BigD1977 said:
Dynamic range is the difference between the quietest and loudest part of a signal. As Cliff said, for there to be 2dB dynamic range you would hear a very loud noise. 1bit dBFS equates to 6dB range. Is there a noise in the lower part of the frequency spectrum that isn't easily heard?

Is the signal subject to input effects? Is the 2dB range showing in the master level meter or the channel level meter? Check the Focusrite software input meters. What's the reading on those? Are there any effects in the DAW that might be contributing to it, such as master bus brickwall limiting?

Is the gain on the Focusrite inputs set up correctly? Do you have the latest drivers installed for the Focusrite (IOW, does it happen on anything else recorded through the interface)?
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So when I say dynamic range I mean range between me playing very quietly and very loudly. Of course if I stop playing there is no noise at all. so yes, there is a lot more than 2db range between when I'm not playing at all and when I am playing.

This does not happen with any other method through the exact same interface.
 
tolchocks said:
2db of DR in a clean sound? It should sound like shit... Not only because of the noise but also because to achieve that kind of compression without soundind that bad you need a complex chain with multband comps, etc...
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Yes! That's what I'm saying. It sounds like there is a ridiculous amount of compression on the signal. Like I have said before, exact same result when playing through a shunted patch with nothing in it.
 
orbantracs said:
So when I say dynamic range I mean range between me playing very quietly and very loudly. Of course if I stop playing there is no noise at all. so yes, there is a lot more than 2db range between when I'm not playing at all and when I am playing.

This does not happen with any other method through the exact same interface.
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It's definitely not a compression block on your patches? It sounds as if your guitar signal is being gated then brickwall limited. You use these patches live? Have you ever recorded with them before?
 
Ok guys, here is a video of one of the factory presets as someone requested. Sorry it's a phone video but it was fastest thing I could do. As you can see, there is no difference between the various lightest picking possible and beating the hell out of the guitar. The signal actually seems to get a bit QUIETER when playing loudly. No, I am not clipping the input.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/bkmlyjp9rhikccp/Video Aug 03, 9 02 47 PM.mov

As a side note, I really appreciate you guys help. This forum has always been incredibly responsive any time I needed any help. I would ask however that you please don't jump to bashing someone for not wanting to put in the effort to get it fixed. I was busy recording today and did all I could with the time allowed to provide as many details as I could. I am also not bad mouthing the axe at all, I love it and have no intention whatsoever of ditching it. I just want to get things to work properly so I can use it even more! :)

Thanks again for all of the help.
 
Perhaps the fader is +12 dB because the level seems so low. But what confuses me is that the channel clip light is on meaning something clipped at some point.

Honestly that looks like an acceptable range for a distortion tone like you played. Distortion naturally compresses the signal so you won't have as much dynamic range as you would with a clean tone.

How high is the volume knob on the front panel? What happens if you put more signal into the interface to get your VU meters closer to -0-?

would ask however that you please don't jump to bashing someone for not wanting to put in the effort to get it fixed. I was busy recording today and did all I could with the time allowed to provide as many details as I could.
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Just wanna clarify again that I didn't intend to bash, I was explaining many previous instances here earlier.

Thanks for the video it definitely clues me in to what may be happening in addition to the description you provided. Anything is better than nothing.
 
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FractalAudio said:
You need to spend a few dollars and get an engineer in there who knows what he's doing. The fader maxed out is an indication that no one in there knows anything about recording.
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I don't see what a fader pushed all the way on an obviously labeled "test" track has anything to do with what is being described in the video. And yes, we are self producing and none of us are audio engineers so we are not great. Can I still get some help on this issue?
 
Chris@KatsuKuriMedia said:
Perhaps the fader is +12 dB because the level seems so low. But what confuses me is that the channel clip light is on meaning something clipped at some point.

Honestly that looks like an acceptable range for a distortion tone like you played. Distortion naturally compresses the signal so you won't have as much dynamic range as you would with a clean tone.

How high is the volume knob on the front panel? What happens if you put more signal into the interface to get your VU meters closer to -0-?
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Nothing happens when turning the front panel level up except the overall level raises.

What are the amp block settings to be aware of that can cause compression?
 
orbantracs said:
I don't see what a fader pushed all the way on an obviously labeled "test" track has anything to do with what is being described in the video. And yes, we are self producing and none of us are audio engineers so we are not great. Can I still get some help on this issue?
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I'd suggest not getting too defensive yet :) pushing any fader up to 12 dB generally is not the way to go for any sound situation, test or not. Maybe it doesn't solve or cause the issue, but it does clue into the underlying problem.

I really think this whole thing is a gain staging issue.

When you tried shunts only, the signal would be very quiet, again possibly seeming like a reduced dynamic range.

Try shunts only then add a Filter block with the Level set to 10 or 20 dB. That should give you a ton of signal out to the DAW for more dynamic range.

I'm still curious as to what your volume knob is set to on the front panel and/or gain on the focusrite and/or why the level is so low.
 
To discard (does that word exist? lol) physical damage to the analog pres I would try another axe fx input... Maybe the front one got some circuits damaged.
 
That's fine for a patch with that much delay and reverb. These both add level to a sound. There's nothing wrong that I can tell from that clip. The signal is also quite bassy which contributes.

Bring the fader down to 0 and bring the input level up.

I'm with Chris in that it's probably a gain staging issue.
 
BigD1977 said:
That's fine for a patch with that much delay and reverb. These both add level to a sound. There's nothing wrong that I can tell from that clip. The signal is also quite bassy which contributes.

Bring the fader down to 0 and bring the input level up.

I'm with Chris in that it's probably a gain staging issue.
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I guess that was a very poor choice of patch in retrospect. I just picked the first factory one my mouse landed on "Top Boost".

Maybe I am wrong but I would still expect very quiet playing to be a lot quieter than very loud "banging the shit out of the guitar" playing. Are there any settings on the amp block that compress (obviously the compression knob does) or have "compression like" qualities I should be aware of? I really feel like this is not normal or expected behavior. I am going to try everything everyone has suggested and then probably try a factory reset. Thanks again to everyone that has been helpful, I really appreciate it.
 
In general, a clean tone has more dynamic range than anything with even a bit of distortion all they way to "metal" tones. So to answer your question, increasing gain (input gain, even input trim) will add compression - this is normal. If I had a real Mesa Boogie amp, say like the Roadster (hint hint cliff!) and played the high gain channels, I really couldn't play it quietly as the high gain increases the input signal much more than the clean channel even at the same perceived volume.

I still say get the axe output to get the meters in the DAW up to 0 dB or so and then judge the dynamic range. Working so low at -40 or so already makes the visual dynamic range so small on a logarithmic scale like a mixer fader.
 
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