do you hear more fret buzz using modelers?

B

banjoze

Inspired
My Tyler has some fret buzz in it. I almost never notice / hear it when I play thru an amp, but it's quite noticeable when I play thru the Axe (or my old Tonelab for that matter). My Axe setup is output to solid state amp to studio monitors (vs. guitar to amp to speaker cab).

Do amps filter the buzz out somehow that the modelers do not?

Is there something I can do to filter it out using the Axe? I turned every setting on the global EQ down as far as they would go just to see if it goes away and it does not, so I'm guessing that isn't the answer... ;)

Yes, I can raise my strings, but my point is to understand why I hear this so much less on a traditional amp vs. the Axe / modelers.

-Gerald
 
No.

I'd suggest finding a good luthier in your area and having him do a proper setup including a fret level and polish.
 
Scott Peterson said:
No.

I'd suggest finding a good luthier in your area and having him do a proper setup including a fret level and polish.
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Actually I just got it back from the best luthier in Seattle (Mike Lull)... It definitely is not a setup issue. I've been playing my guitars setup this way for years with little to no fret noise when amplified, but a bit when played acoustically. I'm curious why I can hear it via the Axe, but cannot thru the amps.
 
Well, I think the most probable cause is in your opening thread.

My Axe setup is output to solid state amp to studio monitors (vs. guitar to amp to speaker cab)
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When you play with real cabs, you are probably VERY off-axis thus rolling off a lot of the high end buzz while the monitors are beaming right into your ears. If you do an apples to apples comparison and the problem still persists, then you might have a point. For example, mic the cab or play the axe thru it.
 
Great minds think alike... :)

I have a theory and to prove whether or not this theory holds water. I plugged routed from my solid state amp (Art SLA1) to my speaker cab vs. my studio monitors. This setup has a LOT less fret buzz coming through. I then plugged directly into my son's Fender Hot Rod Deluxe and got basically the same results.

So, I'm guessing that FRFR speakers (like my studio monitors) and even headphones, where I hear this even more than through my monitors are amplifying the fret buzz frequencies more than do typical guitar cab speakers...???? Is this why guitar techs frequently tell me that a little bit of fret buzz while playing acoustically is fine since it will not be heard when the guitar is amplified?

Anyone know the science behind this that can provide a better answer to what I'm hearing?
 
I have noticed the same thing and my guitars are set up just fine. I do not know exactly why, I assume its simply a matter of too much hi freq. I dial some of the hi's - usually a bandwidth - and it seems to take care of the matter. Perhaps the frfr in your ear is the culprit. Personally, I just run into a guitar speaker and get the results I need. I have done some frfr with my studio spkrs but find I end up tinkering a lot to get things right. It can be done, just not my cup of tea...at this time.
 
GuitarMike: thanks for the reply... feels better not being the only person "hearing" something... :)

It sounds righteous through my guitar cab! But I REALLY want to get the same results using IEMs and FRFR setups...
 
Fret buzz is usually most noticable in the higher frequencies. With FRFR you might be running more high end than with an ordinary amp. Just because of what you're used to hearing from music CDs as opposed to playing a tube amp. Try running the FRFR monitors pretty hard and blocking 6kHz with the parametric EQ or filter (Q@900 or so) and slowly turn down the frequency. It usually surprises me how little difference it makes in the tone. But it might reduce the buzz.
Another thing might be the ambience. If you only run amps with the rest of the band playing, you hear a lot less detail from your own tone than tinkering at home with the monitors.
 
Dutch: Thanks I'll give the filtering you mention a try.

Regarding ambience: I'm comparing straight to monitors side-by-side with straight to my speaker cab in my living room. The amp in both cases is the ART SLA 1. The only difference in the signal chain is the speakers. One set is ART Studio Monitors and the others is a 2x12 speaker cab with a Classic Lead 80 and a Vintage 30, both Celestions. I assume there is a lot less high end in the 2x12, thus I do not hear the extraneous guitar noise....??
 
Yeah, the answer to the OP is a resounding NO. I had all 3 of my guitars Plek'd my your same Mike Lull when I lived in Seattle. I don't hear fret noise on any of them though the Axe-Fx. Not any more than on my Vetta or other various amps I've played.
 
Yeah, he Plek'ed mine as well.

What do you play your AxeFx through? (ie. what is your signal chain post AxeFx?)
 
banjoze said:
Yeah, he Plek'ed mine as well.

What do you play your AxeFx through? (ie. what is your signal chain post AxeFx?)
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At home, it's Axe-FX --> Motu Traveler mk3 --> Alesis ATH-M50 Headphones.
I play it through headphones most of the time at home right now. There's no room for my studio monitors or speakers where I stay during the week.

I also hook the Axe-Fx outputs into various amp heads that are around at the different practice spaces I go to on weekends. It sounds phenomenal through everything, mono or stereo. So far I get comments like "your tone is soooooo good!!!" from just about everyone. It better be, I spent weeks on it haha.
 
I spent some time researching the differences between a typical guitar cab speaker and my studio monitors. As I suspected the guitar cab variants ability to reproduce sounds falls off sharply starting around 5000Hz. The advertised range for them is 80-5000Hz. My studio monitors range from 49Hz-20kHz.

Given this disparity I used a filter to remove the frequencies starting around 5Khz. This cleans up a lot of the noise I've been hearing. I haven't filtered the lower range yet to see if that makes any difference. I'll try that next.
 
Jerotas: Question for you: When you play your electric unamplified (ie. acoustically) do you hear any fret noise at all? I'm wondering if your action is setup a bit higher than mine and if this accounts for why you aren't hearing what I'm hearing. Mine has a bit of fret buzz that I notice playing unplugged, but as I mentioned earlier I've been willing to keep the action set this low historically as these sounds were not present when amplified.
 
banjoze said:
Jerotas: Question for you: When you play your electric unamplified (ie. acoustically) do you hear any fret noise at all? I'm wondering if your action is setup a bit higher than mine and if this accounts for why you aren't hearing what I'm hearing. Mine has a bit of fret buzz that I notice playing unplugged, but as I mentioned earlier I've been willing to keep the action set this low historically as these sounds were not present when amplified.
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You're wondering if my action is setup a bit higher than yours? Not likely. I've never seen action as low as mine on another guitar. This is my McNaught Phoenix Rising with stainless steel frets - they will NEVER need to be recrowned or leveled. I can get a normal pick stuck between the 12th fret and the high E string. I'd go so far as to say that if your action is lower than mine, the guitar cannot be played, no matter how light your touch is :)

But...yes I do hear some fret buzz maybe on the lowest 2 strings, 1st through 4th frets, if I pick a little harder than necessary. You hear the buzz in the room, but the pickups must not hear it because I never hear that buzz on an amp or preamp. If I did, I would raise the action. I have Duncan Full Shred pickups on it.
 
Dutch said:
Fret buzz is usually most noticable in the higher frequencies. With FRFR you might be running more high end than with an ordinary amp. Just because of what you're used to hearing from music CDs as opposed to playing a tube amp. Try running the FRFR monitors pretty hard and blocking 6kHz with the parametric EQ or filter (Q@900 or so) and slowly turn down the frequency. It usually surprises me how little difference it makes in the tone. But it might reduce the buzz.
Another thing might be the ambience. If you only run amps with the rest of the band playing, you hear a lot less detail from your own tone than tinkering at home with the monitors.
Click to expand...

Glad I'm not going mad. Personally, I've had an embarrassing moment with my chosen guitar tech where I've tried to describe a horrible metalic buzz I'm hearing on my strat - he could not hear it. I can actually hear the same unpleasant sound on some very good records (e.g. Caught Stealing by Janes Addiction). I'm convinced now that some people are more tuned to that frequency. I certainly don't think it's an Axe Fx issue. I also concurr with Dutch that the problem diminishes when I'm playing with the band.
 
The difference is most often in the cab sim. If it is really faithful to the cab from which it was taken, it will have the same effect of reducing fret buzz that the physical speaker does. Some IRs have quite a bit more high frequency content than you'd actually hear while playing through the speaker. These were typically acquired via close-mic'ing. If you were to play a tube amp through a full range speaker, you'd hear the same effect.

If you like a cab sim except for excessive fret buzz, the filtering techniques that have already been discussed here are very effective at removing the buzz (and unwanted "fizz" as well) while leaving the fundamental tonality of the sim unchanged.
 
Great discussion guys! Nic, I don't think you're losing your mind at all. I posted when 9.02 was first out, that it seemed to accentuate fret buzz. I'm assuming that "chime" is in the higher frequencies so it makes sense that fret buzz (which equates to a terrible grinding sound for me) would be accentuated. This is most noticeable on mid-gain type tones for me and the main reason I like being able to dial back to 9.0 for these tones. I can't stand any fret buzz, but on all three of my electrics in order to completely eliminate it, the action is high enough to drive a truck under. So I tolerate it, use the blocking techniques listed above, and in many cases, dial back to 9.0 settings in the advanced tab.
 
Definitely not losing your mind. I can hear it very clearly.

Thanks for all the responses and discussion. Very appreciated.

If anyone else has helpful hints for dealing with this, chime in.

-Gerald
 
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