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Delay before Reverb? Or Reverb before Delay? What's your preference?

yek

Moderator
Moderator
doesn't matter (with the above caveats). If you have 2 LTI objects running in series, it does not matter which comes first.
Sort of like Red + Green = Yellow and Green + Red = Yellow.
Really? With Delay before Reverb, each delay trail will get reverberated separately. The result should different from Verb before Delay, where the trails are dry.
 

FractalAudio

Administrator
Fractal Audio Systems
Moderator
If there isn't distortion or modulation in the delay/reverb then the order is irrelevant since they are then Linear Time Invariant (or shift invariant in digital parlance). If there is a small amount of distortion or modulation then the order is probably still irrelevant. If there is a lot of distortion or modulation then the order may make a difference.

However, typically the biggest difference, as noted above, is series vs. parallel since h1(t)*h2(t) is not the same as h1(t)+h2(t). If LTI h1*h2 = h2*h1.

It may seem counter-intuitive that the order doesn't matter but try it and you'll be surprised.
 

flyingfadr

Power User
I run my delay and reverb in parallel... don't see how it "can't matter"... in the instance I describe, you are adding reverb to the delayed signal... giving the reverb space away from the sound source ( the guitar cab block )... yes, you can add pre-delay into the reverb as well, but it is a much different effect... it adds depth to each of the delay repeats...

But as in guitars, amps, and tone preference, to each his or her own... do whatever sounds best to YOU...
 

GuitarDojo

Moderator
Moderator
If there isn't distortion or modulation in the delay/reverb then the order is irrelevant since they are then Linear Time Invariant (or shift invariant in digital parlance). If there is a small amount of distortion or modulation then the order is probably still irrelevant. If there is a lot of distortion or modulation then the order may make a difference.

However, typically the biggest difference, as noted above, is series vs. parallel since h1(t)*h2(t) is not the same as h1(t)+h2(t). If LTI h1*h2 = h2*h1.

It may seem counter-intuitive that the order doesn't matter but try it and you'll be surprised.
I freakin luv it here!
 

Warrior

Power User
If there isn't distortion or modulation in the delay/reverb then the order is irrelevant since they are then Linear Time Invariant (or shift invariant in digital parlance). If there is a small amount of distortion or modulation then the order is probably still irrelevant. If there is a lot of distortion or modulation then the order may make a difference.

However, typically the biggest difference, as noted above, is series vs. parallel since h1(t)*h2(t) is not the same as h1(t)+h2(t). If LTI h1*h2 = h2*h1.

It may seem counter-intuitive that the order doesn't matter but try it and you'll be surprised.
This is what I was going to say but Cliff beat me to it. :lol
 

Galo

Experienced
It all really comes down to what you personally like in the patch. I usually like the delay before rev.
 

barhrecords

Axe-Master
If there isn't distortion or modulation in the delay/reverb then the order is irrelevant since they are then Linear Time Invariant (or shift invariant in digital parlance). If there is a small amount of distortion or modulation then the order is probably still irrelevant. If there is a lot of distortion or modulation then the order may make a difference.

However, typically the biggest difference, as noted above, is series vs. parallel since h1(t)*h2(t) is not the same as h1(t)+h2(t). If LTI h1*h2 = h2*h1.

It may seem counter-intuitive that the order doesn't matter but try it and you'll be surprised.
Mind blown... I was in the camp that thought it mattered in series... cool stuff.

Richard
 

Roland

Experienced
For a low level of delay and reverb I prefer the sound of reverb and delay in parallel, and in parallel with a dry signal. It means that if I step up the delay time or volume for a solo, or at the end of a song, then it rings clearer and doesn't get muddied by extra reverb. Anyone producing sound scapes may well go for effects in series.
 

ianx

Experienced
If there isn't distortion or modulation in the delay/reverb then the order is irrelevant since they are then Linear Time Invariant (or shift invariant in digital parlance). If there is a small amount of distortion or modulation then the order is probably still irrelevant. If there is a lot of distortion or modulation then the order may make a difference.

However, typically the biggest difference, as noted above, is series vs. parallel since h1(t)*h2(t) is not the same as h1(t)+h2(t). If LTI h1*h2 = h2*h1.

It may seem counter-intuitive that the order doesn't matter but try it and you'll be surprised.
I KNEW IT!!!.... He's not human... :)
 

Kriig

Fractal Fanatic
Reverb in the end.. As allways did with my pedalboard.... Maybe it is time to think about new ways to do things :D
 

javajunkie

Moderator
Moderator
Exactly,
They sound different and each has its use.

Nope:

From Cliff's earlier thread:

"If there isn't distortion or modulation in the delay/reverb then the order is irrelevant since they are then Linear Time Invariant (or shift invariant in digital parlance). If there is a small amount of distortion or modulation then the order is probably still irrelevant. If there is a lot of distortion or modulation then the order may make a difference.


However, typically the biggest difference, as noted above, is series vs. parallel since h1(t)*h2(t) is not the same as h1(t)+h2(t). If LTI h1*h2 = h2*h1.

It may seem counter-intuitive that the order doesn't matter but try it and you'll be surprised."



It is just the way the math works out. Try it you will see.
 

javajunkie

Moderator
Moderator
Really? With Delay before Reverb, each delay trail will get reverberated separately. The result should different from Verb before Delay, where the trails are dry.
The tails would not be dry. The tails would be copies of a reverberated signal.
 

jefferski

Fractal Fanatic
I've always been delay > reverb, the reason being that reverb is "sort of supposed" to emulate the actual sound you would hear in a real-world room, cave or whatever. I'd never really tried the other way but it seems like it would sound somewhat different... thanks Cliff for your clarification (even if I didn't quite understand it all ;-)

When I get some time I'm going to experiment with going parallel... I like the idea of keeping my dry signal separate to get a cleaner tone coming through.
 
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